UrbanFaith editor Allen Reynolds talked with Rev. William H. Lamar IV about his book Ancestors: Those Who Bless Us, Curse Us, Hold Us. He shares how believers can follow Jesus’ example by honoring their ancestors and drawing from their strength to combat injustice today. Excerpts are below, the full interview is above.
Allen
Pastor Lamar, you have this book coming out on ancestors, something that I think is so relevant right now. We know that there is an attack on Black history happening in this country, and we’re trying to do more and more to address the importance of recognizing our history, recognizing those who have come before us. Can you talk a little bit about why you decided to write a book about ancestors for a time like this?
Pastor Lamar
Allen, there’s so many ways I could get into it. Let me begin with what was sitting deep in my soul and spirit as I was wrestling with these ideas and as these ideas were really forcing their way up through me. In my grandmother’s house at 223 Madison Street, in a smallish town in Georgia, there was a portrait that hung by the front door of her Aunt Viney, a black and white portrait in an oval frame. Many Black folks have seen kind of sepia tone portraits like that. As a child, I was always intrigued. Why is she there? Because it’s like the portrait said, “Good morning to me every morning and good night every evening.” My grandmother began to tell me the story of Aunt Viney and how when her parents died, her parents died when she was so young [that] she had no memory of them, that Aunt Viney took her in, raised her and her sisters and literally saved her life. That portrait hung in the place of honor in my grandmother’s home and now it hangs in a place of honor in my home. What I realize now is hanging that portrait was not just about remembering Aunt Viney, but my grandmother was seeking for a certain energy and spirit to be in her home. That same spirit of hospitality, that same spirit of sacrifice. When she told me that story, she was trying to help me to become not only what Aunt Viney was, but who she was, the kind of person that she had become. Black people and peoples around the world have always centered ancestral presences, ancestral images, ancestral belongings as a way to root us, as a way to anchor us and as a way to be connected with energy beyond death. What I’m trying to say in this book is that we especially now cannot be hesitant or afraid to embrace the power of ancestors, especially black people because we have been taught that venerating and honoring our ancestors is pagan, that it is un-Christian, that there is something wrong with it. When there absolutely are no people who do not venerate or honor their ancestors and do it in explicit ways. I live in Washington, DC. Part of the book talks about there is no city as steeped in ancestral veneration as Washington, DC. The name of the city, the monuments of the city, the streets and the statuary of the city. Why would I honor energies of conquest and hegemony and white supremacy and not honor and venerate the energies that have made us the beautiful, free, wonderful, struggling, committed people that we have always been? I’m just very clear, especially for those of faith, because you cannot extract ancestral veneration from reading of the [scriptures]. There is no way to know God except ancestrally. God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob, God of our mothers, God of our fathers, and also the very fact that Jesus himself climbed a mountain and had an ancestral visitation [with Moses and Elijah]. If he needed to be visited by and needed to visit his ancestors, surely we do.
Allen
One of the things that strikes me about this moment that I want you to want to ask you about is that we know that there’s an assault right now on black history and that there’s an effort as you might put it to disconnect us from our ancestors. Right? And in our schools, in our communities, can you talk about why it’s important for us to maintain and reinforce that connection? I would even call the ancestor veneration you talk about as [embracing] living history. How do we embrace our living history as black people in a moment like this?
Pastor Lamar
So, I’m blessed to be the pastor of Ernest Green. And Ernie Green was one of the Little Rock Nine who integrated central high schools. I remember one day I was talking with Brother Ernie and I asked him, I said, “Brother Green, how did you all marshal the energy to do what you did in Little Rock, to integrate that school in the midst of all that violence?” And he told me this. He said he had a teacher who taught them about revolts amongst the enslaved and maroon communities. They said that because he had learned those stories, and I would press the language, I would say, because the energy of those ancestors via the telling of the stories, that energy became part of his energy. When it was his time to stand, he said, if they could revolt and if the maroons could leave plantation economies, go deep into the woods and build a place of freedom and protect themselves, then I could stand in my day. What they know is if these stories disappear, our fight will disappear. GPS is able to “tell you” where you are because it is sending signals to satellites. And those satellites are sending signals back. Our ancestors send us energy to tell us where we are and who we are. And if we are disconnected from those stories, then we will not fight. We will not have the joy. We will not have the cultural clarity. We will not have the creativity. So D’Angelo died, the great artist. And if you listen to D’Angelo’s music, you know that D’Angelo has spent time with Marvin Gaye. You know that D’Angelo has spent time with Teddy Pendegrass. You know that D’Angelo has spent time with Billie Holiday. So, they know that if they erase our history, then we will live as those who are starting from zero. When really, we are not starting from zero. We have gotten a baton passed to us from those who ran before. And they understand the power of history. Now for those people, now notice at the same time they’re trying to erase our history, they got a 1776 commission. They are retelling their own story and they are scrubbing it of its evil, of its conquest, of its violence. They are telling them to command all of their political impulse to tell [that] story. If you go back and read what they said it is because they don’t want white children to feel guilt. They feel bad about who they are. They are preparing the next generations to continue their story of domination. If we are going to prepare our next generations for stories of community, for stories of love, for stories of shared human flourishing, then we cannot let them take our stories from us. And even if they keep doing what they are doing, they sure can’t tell you what stories to tell your daughters. They cannot tell me what to preach. And they cannot dictate what we write, what we sing. And so, we keep going forward. We keep going forward. They will not erase us. To take our stories is to take us. And we cannot let it happen.
Allen
For young people who may be in this moment trying to figure out, how can I move forward and be fruitful and still hold on to the sankofa, look backward and move forward? What wisdom would you share? What advice would you give them about how to move forward and flourishing in a world that seems to want to erase them and their history?
Pastor Lamar
What an extraordinary question. Let me tell you, the times have changed and the vehicles are different. I think the methodology is the same. My parents took me to libraries as a child. I was surrounded by books. I remember the joy I had as a child watching PBS when it aired the Shaka Zulu miniseries and when it aired Eyes on the Prize. And when I saw those images, I pulled every biography I could. I watched and read everything I could. And those ancestors became a part of me. Just like kids hear people say you are what you eat. When you eat that ancestral energy by reading and watching and asking questions, now those things are a part of me. Those stories are a part of me. I will never forget when I first read Up from Slavery. And then a few months ago, I was actually in Tuskegee in Mr. [Booker T.] Washington’s house, in his bathroom, in his office. And on the wall in Mr. Washington’s office was a commendation given to him by the trustees of Metropolitan African Methodist Episcopal Church that he hanged in his own office. That is the connection. When you read of the ancestors, when you open yourself to their stories, they will find you over and over again and they will cajole you toward a larger humanity and toward the excellence and service and joy necessary for us to flourish in this moment when they are committed to our destruction. What I am saying is I don’t want any black person saying, “This ain’t of God.” This is exactly of God. When the scripture says, “When you cross the river, put the stones there. So when the children come back and ask what mean these stones,” that is connecting them to their ancestry. That is connecting them to the technology of sacred memory. And what it will do is open for us new avenues to hear the voice of the divine mitigated through the voices of our mothers and fathers. That is what we all are called to do, especially for the young. Surround them in their rooms with pictures of the ancestors, with books of the ancestors. Tell them stories of the ancestors, and the ancestors will help to lift them to their true vocation. And they will be the warriors we need to fight with joy in days to come.
Cheryl McKissack Daniel is the latest in a 200+ year old legacy of Black architects, engineers, construction workers and designers who have literally built some of the most iconic structures in America. UF contributor Maina Mwaura sat down with her to talk about her book The Black Family Who Built America: The McKissacks, chronicling her family’s history and heritage of being black builders in the United States and beyond.
Sarah’s Oil is a true black history story of fame and fortune. Sarah Rector was a young Black girl with tremendous faith who made a fortune becoming the youngest black millionaire in segregated America. Her story is important history that was rarely told until now, and thanks to a committed group of creators, her story is now being told in movie theaters across the country. UrbanFaith sat down with one of the producers of the film Sarah’s Oil, Derrick Williams, to talk about the film’s impact and message of faith and fortune. The film is now playing in theaters everywhere and it is important for us to support and share our history!
More about the film is below.
SARAH’S OIL is a biographical drama inspired by Tonya Bolden’s 2014 book Searching for Sarah Rector: The Richest Black Girl in America. It tells the extraordinary true story of Sarah Rector, a girl born in the 1900s in Oklahoma Indian Territory, who believed she had oil beneath her inherited land—and was proven right, setting off a battle for ownership and legacy. But Sarah’s story is more than one of wealth: it’s about courage, community, and a fierce belief in her own worth in the face of a society determined to overlook her.
“I think the thing that so appealed about this story is that she is a child,” says writer Betsy Nowrasteh on how the story is framed. This is intrinsically Sarah’s story. “She brings that child’s energy, that child’s hope, and that uncorrupted child’s vision of things. She isn’t cynical, she isn’t skeptical. She just has a clarity of vision that adults lose.”
Directed by Cyrus Nowrasteh (The Stoning of Soraya M., The Young Messiah) and co-written with Betsy Giffen Nowrasteh, the film assembles a world-class team both behind and in front of the camera. The ensemble cast stars Zachary Levi, Sonequa Martin-Green, Garret Dillahunt, and Bridget Regan, and introduces Naya Desir-Johnson as Sarah Rector. SARAH’S OIL was shot on location in Oklahoma during Summer 2024, with key scenes filmed at historic sites in Okmulgee and Bristow, grounding the narrative in the land and legacy that shaped Sarah’s life.
Sarah’s living descendants have been integral to the development of the film and deep supporters of SARAH’S OIL.
Diane Euston, a family historian who has long documented Sarah’s place in local history, delivered a poignant interview connecting personal legacy with public record. She beautifully summarized Sarah’s spirit by saying: “This movie does such a great job of showing how the story really is about not giving up – and when somebody says no, you go find someone that’s going to say yes. Sarah did not accept ‘no’ in her life. She found a way… she always found a way.”
This film is not just a period drama. It is a powerful rendering of undertold history and a reclaiming of the past — a film powered by the legacy of Sarah Rector, the passion of her descendants, and the joint vision of Amazon MGM Studios, Kingdom Story Company, and Wonder Project.
Coming to theaters November 7, 2025, SARAH’S OIL reminds us that when the world says no, faith finds another way.
“The people who I want to see it the most are little Black girls all over the world,” says Naya, who dazzles in her breakout role. “When they see this, they might be like, ‘Wow, maybe I can do—’ like, if they have a dream in mind, they’ll be like, ‘I can do this too.’”
Dr. Malcolm Foley reminds believers that Jesus told us we can’t serve God and Mammon. In his book The Anti Greed Gospel, he challenges believers to confront the greed that gave birth to racism in America and continues to perpetuate injustice in our nation today. The full interview is above, excerpts below have been edited for clarity and length.
Allen
Absolutely. The first question I have for you, I mean, this subtitle, it kind of lays it out. Why the love of money is the root of racism and how the church created a new way forward. Can you talk about how is the love of money, the root of racism? This is not a thing that many people are talking about.
Malcolm
Which is so, and it’s so interesting to me that it’s not a popular account. So I, I thank the Brazos marketing people for giving me that title. It very easily explains kind of what the book is about. So, the argument of the book is that the history of race and racism is not a history fundamentally of identity or of hate or of ignorance, but that it’s a history of greed. That when, that when the Portuguese come to Africa, witness chattel slavery, decide to get involved, they don’t do so because they’re racist. They do so because they have markets they want to expand. And then as time goes on, and they have to justify that to themselves to the Pope, that’s when these narratives of blackness and whiteness pop up. It’s [that] these people are savages and heathens, and that’s why we enslaved them. It’s not, it’s not because we’re going to make a whole bunch of money, disregard that detail. It’s because of something about them. The argument that I want to make in the book is that especially this country’s history of race and racism is just a proxy battle of a cosmic war. And the combatants in that cosmic war were named by Christ in Matthew 6:24, where he says, you can’t serve two masters. You’ll either love one and hate the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. And you can’t serve both God and [Mammon]. Jesus could have chosen any of the numerous idols that we are tempted to serve. I spent a lot of time in reform circles. There’s a lot of talk about pride. I’ll talk about self, he could have said God and self. And I already said, he says God and mammon, the Aramaic word for money and riches. And I think Jesus was right 2000 years ago. I think he’s still still right today. And this history is, I think, just a series of examples that back that up.
Allen
I love that. And I think that again, you, you’re getting at something as you continue to work that not only does Christ lift it up, but one of the lines that you say really catches me, which is that Christ says that we have to love one another. And that love is about obedience.
Malcolm
Yes.
Allen
And that love must be material, right? I can’t just have an attitude of loving. I have to do something. Can you talk a little bit more about what that means for believers to love materially and not just an attitude as we confront racism and greed?
Malcolm
Yes. Yes. Okay. So, so my account of what kind of, especially what the, what the new, how the New Testament defines love in many ways comes back to 1st John 3:16 where we’re told, this is how we know what love is, that Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. Therefore, we ought to lay down our lives for one another. And then the next verse John says, if anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need, and has no pity on them, how can you say that the love of God is in you? And what those verses then indicate is that, love is always a material relation. So like, people can think about, this is how we know what love is, that Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And people can just think about that as just this like lofty, theological thing. And that’s not what John says. John’s saying that like Jesus did this very, very material thing for you. He died. Like that’s a very serious material act to do on behalf of someone. And then that has a bearing on the way that you love your neighbor. They said, therefore, we ought to give up our lives for one another. It’s a recognition that everything that we have been given, especially in excess of what we need, is for the service of others. And what that means, especially in our conversations about race is that we don’t address massive economic injustice through just like friendship and hanging out. We deal with it through redistribution. We deal with it through sharing. But these material acts that extend beyond just me being able to say, well, I have a bunch of multiracial friendships and we hang out and think well of each other. Like, well, that’s nice, but that’s not love according to the scriptures. And so one of the things I also want to do with our conversations about race is I want to make sure that they’re deeply material. Because the issue with race, and this is why I argue in the introduction, is that it lies, it steals, and it kills. And so, and so if we’re going to build communities that resist those lies, that theft, and that murder, it’s going to require communities that are shaped in certain material ways, material forms of, forms of solidarity, material ways that we resist, not only resist violence, but actively undermine the violence that our brothers, sisters and neighbors are subjected to, and that we like vocally tell the truth, as opposed to being captive to lies.
Allen
So, since you, you know, you raised how, you know, we want to be able to be truth tellers in this world, then how is, is filled with lies and you make this really, I mean, just really salient and graphic case about what racism history has been like in this country and it’s tied to economics. I, I want you to, to tease out just for me, how you see moving from slavery to lynching to what we’re seeing today with mass incarceration and even this other, this othering right, this, this violence that we’re seeing rising in our country that has economic motivators, right? Can you talk about how it’s important to not miss that there’s a profit motive or a greed motive instead of just a, oh, I don’t like these people. I hate these people that it’s underlying some of this.
Malcolm
It’s important to understand that I think when we look at the history of race, we are also looking at the history of capitalism. Hence why I use the language of racial capitalism, which I take from, which I take from the black radical tradition. Folks like folks like Cedric Robinson and others were very clear that the only capitalism that we know is a racial capitalism, that the capitalism that we know requires us to place people in categories of exploitable thing so that we can make money off them. And so, that history of slavery, of lynching, of mass incarceration…each of these are just instantiations of racial capitalism. Slavery is fundamentally a system of economic exploitation. Lynching, as I argue in the book, was precipitated by greed. It continued because of greed and it ended when it became bad for business. When we think about, when we think about mass incarceration, we can even think about this right now with the billions of dollars that’s now going to immigration detention centers and things like that. Like the reason why these things continue is because they make money for folks. It’s not just because you just got a whole bunch of just hateful people that just want to hurt people. And there is cruelty, but cruelty but even that cruelty is rarely done just for the sake of cruelty. It has some kind of material benefit for someone. That’s what then motivates them to continue to do it. And so, I want to continue to remind people of that fact. Because I’ve gotten this kind of in some responses from the book that a lot of people have been… like they look at the history of race and they’re confused because they’re like, wait a minute, this really just comes down to people not liking other people because they’re different? Like that just seems weird. Like it doesn’t seem like that’s a foundation strong enough to like have this continue for so long and with so much brutality. But when they’re made aware of the fact that it’s like…oh wait, money is behind it. All of the the dominoes start to fall and the gears start kind of clicking in place. That’s what that discovery did for me. And that’s why I wanted to write this book because I wanted to make sure as much as these conversations have been had in academic circles, the church broadly doesn’t see this. And so I’m like, let me, let me write a book so that people can see the way that this, the way that this actually works, but not only so that they can see the way this actually works, but that they could see the fact that Christ has actually given us the resources to be able to live in an alternative way, that we have an opportunity to show the world that this is not the only way to operate.
Ms. Julieanna Richardson went from broadcast and television executive to the founder of an organization dedicated to preserving Black History. She now runs one of the largest organizations dedicated to the location and preservation of African American historical archives, stories, and history: The History Makers. UrbanFaith contributor Maina Mwaura sat down with her to learn about the Historymakers and get her insight on our world and history today.
