UrbanFaith editor Allen Reynolds talked with Rev. William H. Lamar IV about his book Ancestors: Those Who Bless Us, Curse Us, Hold Us. He shares how believers can follow Jesus’ example by honoring their ancestors and drawing from their strength to combat injustice today. Excerpts are below, the full interview is above.
Allen
Pastor Lamar, you have this book coming out on ancestors, something that I think is so relevant right now. We know that there is an attack on Black history happening in this country, and we’re trying to do more and more to address the importance of recognizing our history, recognizing those who have come before us. Can you talk a little bit about why you decided to write a book about ancestors for a time like this?
Pastor Lamar
Allen, there’s so many ways I could get into it. Let me begin with what was sitting deep in my soul and spirit as I was wrestling with these ideas and as these ideas were really forcing their way up through me. In my grandmother’s house at 223 Madison Street, in a smallish town in Georgia, there was a portrait that hung by the front door of her Aunt Viney, a black and white portrait in an oval frame. Many Black folks have seen kind of sepia tone portraits like that. As a child, I was always intrigued. Why is she there? Because it’s like the portrait said, “Good morning to me every morning and good night every evening.” My grandmother began to tell me the story of Aunt Viney and how when her parents died, her parents died when she was so young [that] she had no memory of them, that Aunt Viney took her in, raised her and her sisters and literally saved her life. That portrait hung in the place of honor in my grandmother’s home and now it hangs in a place of honor in my home. What I realize now is hanging that portrait was not just about remembering Aunt Viney, but my grandmother was seeking for a certain energy and spirit to be in her home. That same spirit of hospitality, that same spirit of sacrifice. When she told me that story, she was trying to help me to become not only what Aunt Viney was, but who she was, the kind of person that she had become. Black people and peoples around the world have always centered ancestral presences, ancestral images, ancestral belongings as a way to root us, as a way to anchor us and as a way to be connected with energy beyond death. What I’m trying to say in this book is that we especially now cannot be hesitant or afraid to embrace the power of ancestors, especially black people because we have been taught that venerating and honoring our ancestors is pagan, that it is un-Christian, that there is something wrong with it. When there absolutely are no people who do not venerate or honor their ancestors and do it in explicit ways. I live in Washington, DC. Part of the book talks about there is no city as steeped in ancestral veneration as Washington, DC. The name of the city, the monuments of the city, the streets and the statuary of the city. Why would I honor energies of conquest and hegemony and white supremacy and not honor and venerate the energies that have made us the beautiful, free, wonderful, struggling, committed people that we have always been? I’m just very clear, especially for those of faith, because you cannot extract ancestral veneration from reading of the [scriptures]. There is no way to know God except ancestrally. God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob, God of our mothers, God of our fathers, and also the very fact that Jesus himself climbed a mountain and had an ancestral visitation [with Moses and Elijah]. If he needed to be visited by and needed to visit his ancestors, surely we do.
Allen
One of the things that strikes me about this moment that I want you to want to ask you about is that we know that there’s an assault right now on black history and that there’s an effort as you might put it to disconnect us from our ancestors. Right? And in our schools, in our communities, can you talk about why it’s important for us to maintain and reinforce that connection? I would even call the ancestor veneration you talk about as [embracing] living history. How do we embrace our living history as black people in a moment like this?
Pastor Lamar
So, I’m blessed to be the pastor of Ernest Green. And Ernie Green was one of the Little Rock Nine who integrated central high schools. I remember one day I was talking with Brother Ernie and I asked him, I said, “Brother Green, how did you all marshal the energy to do what you did in Little Rock, to integrate that school in the midst of all that violence?” And he told me this. He said he had a teacher who taught them about revolts amongst the enslaved and maroon communities. They said that because he had learned those stories, and I would press the language, I would say, because the energy of those ancestors via the telling of the stories, that energy became part of his energy. When it was his time to stand, he said, if they could revolt and if the maroons could leave plantation economies, go deep into the woods and build a place of freedom and protect themselves, then I could stand in my day. What they know is if these stories disappear, our fight will disappear. GPS is able to “tell you” where you are because it is sending signals to satellites. And those satellites are sending signals back. Our ancestors send us energy to tell us where we are and who we are. And if we are disconnected from those stories, then we will not fight. We will not have the joy. We will not have the cultural clarity. We will not have the creativity. So D’Angelo died, the great artist. And if you listen to D’Angelo’s music, you know that D’Angelo has spent time with Marvin Gaye. You know that D’Angelo has spent time with Teddy Pendegrass. You know that D’Angelo has spent time with Billie Holiday. So, they know that if they erase our history, then we will live as those who are starting from zero. When really, we are not starting from zero. We have gotten a baton passed to us from those who ran before. And they understand the power of history. Now for those people, now notice at the same time they’re trying to erase our history, they got a 1776 commission. They are retelling their own story and they are scrubbing it of its evil, of its conquest, of its violence. They are telling them to command all of their political impulse to tell [that] story. If you go back and read what they said it is because they don’t want white children to feel guilt. They feel bad about who they are. They are preparing the next generations to continue their story of domination. If we are going to prepare our next generations for stories of community, for stories of love, for stories of shared human flourishing, then we cannot let them take our stories from us. And even if they keep doing what they are doing, they sure can’t tell you what stories to tell your daughters. They cannot tell me what to preach. And they cannot dictate what we write, what we sing. And so, we keep going forward. We keep going forward. They will not erase us. To take our stories is to take us. And we cannot let it happen.
Allen
For young people who may be in this moment trying to figure out, how can I move forward and be fruitful and still hold on to the sankofa, look backward and move forward? What wisdom would you share? What advice would you give them about how to move forward and flourishing in a world that seems to want to erase them and their history?
Pastor Lamar
What an extraordinary question. Let me tell you, the times have changed and the vehicles are different. I think the methodology is the same. My parents took me to libraries as a child. I was surrounded by books. I remember the joy I had as a child watching PBS when it aired the Shaka Zulu miniseries and when it aired Eyes on the Prize. And when I saw those images, I pulled every biography I could. I watched and read everything I could. And those ancestors became a part of me. Just like kids hear people say you are what you eat. When you eat that ancestral energy by reading and watching and asking questions, now those things are a part of me. Those stories are a part of me. I will never forget when I first read Up from Slavery. And then a few months ago, I was actually in Tuskegee in Mr. [Booker T.] Washington’s house, in his bathroom, in his office. And on the wall in Mr. Washington’s office was a commendation given to him by the trustees of Metropolitan African Methodist Episcopal Church that he hanged in his own office. That is the connection. When you read of the ancestors, when you open yourself to their stories, they will find you over and over again and they will cajole you toward a larger humanity and toward the excellence and service and joy necessary for us to flourish in this moment when they are committed to our destruction. What I am saying is I don’t want any black person saying, “This ain’t of God.” This is exactly of God. When the scripture says, “When you cross the river, put the stones there. So when the children come back and ask what mean these stones,” that is connecting them to their ancestry. That is connecting them to the technology of sacred memory. And what it will do is open for us new avenues to hear the voice of the divine mitigated through the voices of our mothers and fathers. That is what we all are called to do, especially for the young. Surround them in their rooms with pictures of the ancestors, with books of the ancestors. Tell them stories of the ancestors, and the ancestors will help to lift them to their true vocation. And they will be the warriors we need to fight with joy in days to come.
UrbanFaith Editor Allen Reynolds spoke with Dr. Terence Lester about his new book From Dropout to Doctorate: Breaking the Chains of Educational Injustice. He addresses generational trauma, past and current educational injustice, and wisdom for young people trying to achieve from difficult circumstances. The excerpts from the interview below have been edited for length and clarity.
Allen
Can you talk a little bit about why conversations around generational trauma and immediate trauma from environment are more important than ever for students as they’re trying to get an education?
Dr. Lester
Yeah, so very unique question. I normally answer this, because when we talk about trauma, trauma itself can be many things. And so, I normally talk about trauma in terms of, I guess, two lanes, right? You have historical trauma, right? This is the collective and cumulative emotional harm experienced by a group of people over time. So like this can be caused by systemic oppression, violence, marginalization, right? You have the impact of things like Jim Crow, redlining, you know, the genre type of laws that actually created barriers for people of color, specifically black people or people who derive from historically marginalized communities. Let’s take for instance, if you were born in a predominantly poor or impoverished environment, chances are there may be a food desert. Chances are you might not have [adequate] access to healthcare. Chances are that the school systems that you may frequent are underfunded, right? And so that can be historically designed due to things related to racism, oppression, and things like that. I argue in the book that this creates the environment for generational trauma to happen. You know, when you grow up in a food desert and you don’t have access to nutritious foods. And that impacts your health. Or you grow up in an environment where the environment itself is being divested or gentrified and you don’t have access to some of the things that are coming in. And that impacts your occupational journey. You grow up in environments where there’s a lot of lack. And so that can create more of the generational trauma that could be passed down. I was telling this story the other day to this guy. My grandmother is 93. She’s still alive. And she talks to me often. She still walks two miles a day. She text messages me and we have these very in-depth conversations. And she talks to me about how she grew up not being able to walk over to the water fountain or not being able to work in certain stores in the community that we live in…that black and brown people frequent these days, or not being able to go to certain parts of town. And that kind of informed how she made decisions, what school she went to or did not go to. That informed how she raised her children. That informed her ability to dream beyond some of the oppression that she is talking to me about today because obviously I’m living in a time where I can pursue more things. I have to fight a little harder, but she’s given me an opportunity to look into her life and see through her lens and how she is describing some of the generational trauma that is passed down based on the historical trauma that our ancestors had to face. And so those things are important to me. And I think it’s important too to be trauma informed. And when I talk about being trauma informed, I’m talking about creating environments that are safe. Where people feel emotionally and physically safe and secure. I’m talking about trustworthiness and transparency, where people are able to communicate and articulate their own narratives without it being edited through a single narrative lens. I’m talking about having support and collaboration and a sense of empowerment and cultural humility, right? Because being trauma informed is asking the question: what happened to you versus what’s wrong with you? And I think most times that lack of awareness doesn’t create the opportunities where we can really understand the context of a community, but also how to show up and support those who may be still struggling.
photo credit Dani Guerra
Allen
Can you talk about what you’re seeing and why that’s still valuable? Why is education, especially after high school, still valuable as a tool for helping us to break free and help to break down some of these systems?
Dr. Lester
Yeah, I think you’re right that we should call out that when political shifts happen and you pull resources from those who are poor or those who need it most, it puts them at a greater disadvantage. We have seen these types of funding cuts and political shifts impact students who are marginalized, specifically those who come from historically marginalized communities. We’ve seen this impact on students who are living with disabilities. We’ve seen reduced staffing when it comes to the Department of Education, which was a sector of government that was to uphold this promise of equal education to its populace or its citizens. The protection of several civil rights, the protection of students who genuinely want to receive an education. I think to answer your question, education is still beneficial, whether it’s the traditional route or independent scholarship. Education gives you the ability to dream beyond your circumstances. It gives you the articulation or the critical thought. To give a social critique of what’s happening in today’s society. Education can grow you in your character, in your integrity, in your worldview, right? It expands your perspective. It allows you to travel into communities that you’ve never been a part of to understand how people think. It gives you a perspective of the global economy or what ML King describes as the global village, right? It opens us up to be able to see the world through multiple lenses instead of allowing us to have a narrow focus. I think education itself gives you the skills needed to pursue particular career paths. I think education is able to build you up in ways that you could not otherwise be built up had you not had direct contact to those who have had the proper training. I think one of the things that I’m fearful of right now is that social media has given everybody access to self-assert themselves as experts. Sometimes we see people online and they will say, “I’m a person that helps people heal.” But they’ve never gone through clinical training. They don’t have an understanding of theoretical approaches. They don’t have the training in diagnosing someone. [What if] somebody says, “I’m a pilot. I’m a self-taught pilot.” Would you hop on a plane with someone who has not gone through aviation school? And so, I think there’s some benefits still when it comes to education because it allows you to have that expertise and that training that you can’t get from any other place.
However, I still do believe in independent scholarship. I believe that there is a sector of people who are disciplined enough to read and to understand concepts without a traditional instructor. I still do believe that people are starting to tap into entrepreneurship and really create and build their own tables. And I think that is a form of hands-on education that you can’t get through any other means but by lived experience. And so, I believe in the both and, right? I’m an entrepreneur, but I’m also a scholar. I’m a practitioner, but I’m also an academic. And I often say in the educational space that I’m a practitioner scholar because I was practicing the work and doing the work long before I had any philosophical inquiries. And so, I think they both can be beneficial. I don’t want to exclude a group of people who don’t feel education is their path, but I don’t want to exclude the group who says education is for me. I think there are non-traditional students and there are traditional students and both are valuable.
Maya Moore was a WNBA Champion, MVP, and superstar when she left the game in her prime to pursue more justice in the US criminal justice system. The incarcerated man she advocated for, Jonathan Irons, had been advocating for prison reform from the inside. Now the two are married and sharing their story through their book Love & Justice. UrbanFaith sat down with Maya and Jonathan to talk about their incredible story following Jesus to sacrifice and live out their faith by seeking justice for the least of these. Excerpts from the interview below have been edited for length and clarity.
Allen
We are here with Jonathan Irons and Maya Moore Irons to talk about their book Love and Justice, the story of their incredible journeys; Jonathan in advocating for justice and Maya in joining in that justice fight after being a WNBA superstar. Can you talk about just that how the context and the environments that you are you all were in, allowed you to see that injustice in different ways?
Jonathan
I mean, it’s not hard. Like kids that are going on struggling and poverty and in situations that are just unfair and disadvantaged. I volunteered with kids down at the school called Peace Prep. And like they are aware, like they’re very intelligent. They are aware that they’re not getting the same type of resources and as other kids in other schools. They are aware that their city is riddled with addicts and there’s criminal activity that’s going on. They think police don’t like them and don’t care about them. And I won’t say that they’re making it up. Like I had so many different examples of things that just showed me that I wouldn’t be treated like everybody else [growing up]. And it just felt like people were being dismissive. Like my teacher didn’t like that I had so much energy. I was always up and down up and down up and down. Maya had a teacher that basically allowed her to stand around and use her energy and she turned into sports and encouraged her like, burn your energy off. Be a kid. Like for me, I didn’t have that experience. And I was aware of that. I was aware that I was treated different than other kids. I went I went to a friend’s house and they had a toilet. I didn’t have one. I’m like, man, what is that? They were like “oh that’s a toilet. That’s where we use the bathroom.” I’m used to a five gallon bucket and bathing in a tin tub. And then fast forward into prison. Like, I’m seeing like the racial inequality. I’m like, how is it that we’re the minority here [in America], but there are more black people that are in prison than there are any other race. I don’t understand this. What’s going on? And then I started to dig into it. I started to look at statistics. I started to read case law and treaties. I started to watch the news. I started asking questions. I started to let my curiosity just run wild. And I got to really see like all the injustices that are happening, happening around me. It got so bad that I overcame my own fear and I started to advocate for other people. I advocated for ice in prison because they stopped giving it to us for a long time. Filed complaints about that and basically talked to the warden face to face and like explained like, “hey, man, this is a basic human right in here that the Supreme Court has already said that we need yet we are not getting that.” And there is a list of things like you don’t have to worry about getting all those other things that were missing. Just give us this. Like just fighting for basic things. It’s like, if you if you have eyes to see, you cannot miss it. That’s why I kind of share some of the some of the things that were happening in prison to me.
Allen
And what about you Maya?
Maya
I think when we, you know, we’re born into the generation that we’re born into. And Ava DuVernay had a quote, I think she was quoting someone else about our mindset…about how we do this together. And the illustration was you inherit this house. We’re all living in this house. And we look at the house and there’s mold over here. There’s some foundations that are just rotting away. There’s broken windows over here and we say, we didn’t break that window. I’m not responsible for the mold over there. But this is the house that we’ve been given. And so it’s our responsibility to fix it as much as we can as best as we can. We have to look at people as people first and foremost. That’s the fundamental skill. Like in basketball, first thing you learn to do other than dribble is shoot. The fundamental skill is you have to be able to see people. We need other people who’ve gone before to help us know. The house is broken like what do we do? [We go to] that mom, grandma, grandpa, like somebody ahead of us. Help me know how to respond to this and say don’t panic baby I know this looks bad, but we can fix this. I had people to show me this is something we can do to help this system correct. And then also just being in relationship, that’s the majority of the work is not being afraid to be in a relationship with the people who have been stepped on. I had a measure of privilege. And I tried to use that to say hey, I’m no better than you. We’re both humans, you deserve to be treated like a human. I’m just saying everybody have basic humanity. Then your work ethic, or your gifts can kind of, you know take you where it goes but basic humanity cannot be a negotiable. So that’s kind of where I came in of like, I didn’t know this was happening. We need to do something because we can do something with this house that we inherited.
Allen
Can you talk about what you how your faith has motivated and played into [your work]?
Jonathan
Yeah, as you look into the Bible, you won’t find Superman in the Bible. You won’t find Batman. You won’t find people that were flawless outside of Jesus. Like everybody [had flaws]. Moses was a murderer. You could just pick anybody a character in the Bible any person in the Bible and see something. And what that does is it lets you know you’re not alone in your flaws and your weaknesses. And what that does, they call us to remember when we see other people that are struggling that are going through things. It calls us to look at them like, “hey, I have my weaknesses. We all need to have compassion on each other. We all need to help each other.” It calls us to remember those people that are less fortunate than we are.. We are supposed to want them to have the same things that we would want. We have to remember the vulnerable. Everybody’s got something going on, whether they want to admit it or not, whether it’s in the forefront or not, we all wrestle with things. And we are called to just lean into each other and be a part of community and show up for each other. And be present and speak out against injustice and things that are happening in this world. And me reading through the Bible and seeing that playing that out. Like, that is that is that to me that’s God talking to me through this word, and through other people, through my environment. God is asking you to remember those people and care for those people where you can that are disadvantaged.
Allen
Yeah, Matthew 25 right, if you did for the least of these you did it to me. Maya, can you talk about how your faith plays into this work? Because it’s a huge step going from where you were to where you are now and focused on caring for the least of these and seeking justice.
Jonathan
I was one of the least of these.
Maya
Man, understanding God’s story, right? God has given us a story. And he says there’s a competing story. There’s the story of the world, of the flesh, of devil is like what does that mean? And it’s a way of seeing that is contrary to the kingdom of God. Every day, we have a choice to make. Are we going to believe God’s story, which is the real story or are we going to believe this world story, this empire story? I think we just unfortunately see some of these systems that have been set up in our house right… in our culture. That are so empire and just crush people and dehumanize and devalue and use and manipulate and coerce all based off of [the idea that] I want to preserve myself.
I’m so fortunate to have been able to feel like I’ve been walking with the Lord since around middle school where my faith became my own, before my name became a name. I had that basketball experience with an awareness [that] my identity is “I’m God’s daughter,” and my purpose is not building my name [or] becoming the best, or making the most money. That wasn’t what got me up out of bed. And so when the when the time came where God was like really making it clear to my heart the shift that I needed to make out of that sports entertainment rhythm into a different rhythm that was unknown. [What was it] going to look like when I stepped away from the game in 2019? But I knew it was leading me towards doing more in this kingdom story that I was learning more about, which required me to give some stuff up; some of my comforts, my status or whatever you want to call it in order to be the hands and feet of Jesus and show up and do the hard things and get educated humble myself learn from people. When I was able to speak and use my platform, I could be helpful and accurate in trying to encourage and equip people. It’s about seeing God’s kingdom as clearly and as rightly as I can and then being able to live my life in a way that makes that kingdom a reality as much as I can every day. Which again is going to probably mean some sacrifice right, love costs. Jesus did sacrifice a lot for love, restoration, and redemption. But it was for the joy that was set before Him. Looking ahead to that future joy. We might not see the full benefit of what our lives are going to do but we’re tasting it now in bits. Until that fullness comes into play. But it is the center of all that we do.
Allen
Jonathan your story is unfortunately not unique enough that there are so many people who are subject to this criminal justice system that the statistics are pointing to that, but that you offer hope that there is something in the midst of it to be gained and that there are is a fight to be fought. Maya you gave up a lot. But showed there’s more to life than WNBA of success and living out our faith can mean a lot for us. So I just thank you both so much. Any last words of wisdom for young folks were out there?
Jonathan
I want to say you can’t make this type of story up. [The one I lived.] You can’t do that. And I’ll say this, it can be your darkest moments. Don’t forget that God loves you. And God got your back. All you got to do is seek a relationship with Him. I promise you. You won’t regret it.
Allen
Maya any parting words?
Maya
I would just say when you get discouraged because it can be [discouraging], it’s just it’s part of life. If you look into the dark it’s discouraging, but don’t stay there. There is something. There are people. There are things in motion that are happening that you can plug into. I’d say get plugged in to something because we can’t just look at the dark things by ourselves in our inner room. If we’re going to look at hard stuff you’ve to link arms and be like, we’re going to look at this together and we’re going to do something together. So, my encouragement is always get plugged in to something already happening and stuff will happen out of that. Keep encouraged and keep moving forward. The black church has modeled resilient ways for centuries. It’s not a new thing. There’s a legacy there. Learn and plug into those elders. There are people who have [wisdom], there’s jewels that are still alive that we can have conversations with and glean from. Let us continue to lift up our people who have gone before and make sure they’re appreciated and that we’re receiving what they can pour out. Because those are team members that need to be honored and still have something to offer us. Keep learning.
Man, one of my favorite authors, I mean, I just want to be blunt with you. Every time I see you on Meet the Press, Eddie, I’m always like, he is dead on about something. I don’t know where it comes from. So where were you when you said to yourself, “Self, I need to write a book [like] We Are The Leaders that We’ve been Looking For?”
Dr. Glaude
You know, this book is based on a set of lectures I delivered like in 2011. And I was so angry at that moment. Everybody was excited about the Obama presidency. And I was angry in some ways, doc, that people were reading Obama’s presidency as the fulfillment of the black freedom struggle. That that’s what the object of all that sacrifice was for, was to get a black man in the White House. And I just thought, that’s not true. What happened to love, what happened to justice, what happened to the moral dimension of the movement? I wanted to think through that. I wanted to figure out what were we relinquishing, what were we giving up in that moment. And then fast forward, all these years later, I returned to those lectures. And I returned to them because in some ways I had lost my footing. I was trying to figure things out because COVID had disrupted so much, I had lost two partners. I felt like I was unmoored, untethered as it were. And I knew these lectures were a moment when I was trying to usher in a new way of being for myself, a new way of thinking for myself, a new way of writing for myself. So I wanted to go back to that moment. And lo and behold, I saw what I was trying to do differently. So all of this happened in the summer of 2023. And I got to work. And then I submitted the manuscript to the editor at Harvard University Press and they were like, OMG, let’s get this out as soon as we can.
Maina
What would you say to people who feel the disillusionment of people who are going, “I don’t want to be the leader?”
Dr. Glaude
I think part of what I’m trying to argue is that when we outsource our responsibility for the house [of this country], when we say, well, I don’t want to pay the mortgage then we know what’s going to happen. And so we cannot outsource our responsibility for democracy any longer to so called prophets, to so called heroes, to politicians. We have to understand this is where Ella Baker, Miss Baker, is so important that we are our salvation in this instanc. Of course, that that doesn’t disregard one’s faith claims, but it’s what we do.And there’s a somewhat cliche at the heart of the book. And that is that if we are the leaders we’ve been looking for, then we got to become better people. We got to reach for higher forms of excellence. James Baldwin used to put it this way, the messiness of the world is often a reflection of the messiness of our interior lives. So if we don’t begin to do that hard work on becoming better people, then we can’t be the source of significant change. But I also should say this, doing the hard work of becoming a better human being must take place alongside of [and] within our ongoing effort to make a more just world. Because the world as it currently is organized gets in the way of us becoming better people. It’s almost like you’re rewarded to be selfish, you’re rewarded to be greedy, you’re rewarded to be mean spirited, you’re rewarded to be self-regarded. You’re not rewarded if you’re other regarded, if you’re not regarded if you have an I, thou relationship [with others as non-objects], you’re not regarded if you’re committed to justice, if you’re committed to the least of these, you see what I mean? If you’re maladjusted to an unjust world, you’re not rewarded. So we got to do the hard work of self-cultivation in pursuit of a more just world. That’s the heart of the book.
Maina
Which one of these people did you fall in love with the most? You’re taking some of the very, very best and you’re dropping them right in front of us and there are nuggets right in front of us. Which one did you go, “I am more in line with this leader.”
Dr. Glaude
It depends on what age you ask me. So when I was a young kid growing up in Mississippi, Dr. King meant everything. I remember checking out the album, show you how old I am. It was the vinyl of Dr. King’s “I Have a Dream” speech. It was the March on Washington. And I remember stopping it and learning it by memory from Mrs. Mitchell’s eighth grade history class. And Dr. King was so important to how I imagined myself. When I got to Morehouse, you’re baptized in King’s thought. You got the statue of him looking at you. And so King was so important for me at a young age. But then when I got to Morehouse, Malcolm became my guy. And I have my goatee to this day. I will never cut it off as kind of testimony from my first conversion experience, reading The Autobiography of Malcolm X. So here I am excited to be at King’s Alma Mater and my freshman year, this guy walks up to me and said, “You’re like a hand without a thumb. You don’t know who you are.” And he gave me Malcolm X’s autobiography. And I read it that night. And I found the language for my father’s anger. I found the language for how to imagine myself as a man, given the fact that I was so afraid because my father scared me to death. Malcolm became this hero of mine that I cut my political teeth on. And now here I am in my fifties. And Miss Baker is all up in me. It’s a more mature voice, I suppose, but we wouldn’t have a black freedom struggle of the 20th century if it wasn’t for her. And the way in which she has that wonderful line, “A strong people doesn’t need a strong leader.” And I said this once, I was speaking, I think it was in Chicago. I was like, “What happens when you have fans in the pews and a celebrity in the pulpit?” The church is dead. It’s done. I think we’re seeing a lot of that right now. What happens when you outsource your faith journey to someone else? And so part of what I’ve been trying to do is to live Miss Baker’s edict. Because the title of the book comes from her. We are the leaders we have been looking for. She says, “We have to convince people that their salvation is in their hands.” What we choose to do. Not what the preacher chooses to do, not what the politician chooses to do. So not what Malcolm inspired me to do, not what King leads me to do, but what’s coming from inside of my heart in light of the exemplars of excellence and love that inform and shape my own voice as I understand it. And that’s what I’m writing towards in the book.
Maina
You keep talking to me. So last question. Sure. Your spiritual faith journey, did that come into play in this book at all?
Dr. Glaude
It’s at work in all of my texts. To be honest with you, it’s me trying to understand what does it what does it mean to be decent and loving? What does it mean to exemplify the ministry of Jesus without it being overlaid with dogma and an institutional constraint. So when I call for a coalition of the decent, animated by the power of love, that is the exacting power of love. That is that is at the heart of my religious Christian witness, as it were. And there’s a moment in the book near the end where I’m going to invoke Jimmy Baldwin again. He has this extraordinary essay that is published after his after his death is entitled “To Crush A Serpent.” And in this in this essay, he is relentless in his critique of the Fallwells and the moral majority and the like. But he talks about what salvation involves, what it entails. And it’s an echo of an earlier essay, a talk that he gave at Kalamazoo in 1961, entitled “In Search For A Majority.” And he says salvation is found in effect in “the going towards.” Salvation is found in the going towards in some ways. And I want to suggest that salvation is found in the going towards and love is its carriage. So the short answer to the question is, is yes, me trying to figure all of this out, indebted to the Christian tradition, but not limited by it. Those lectures produced an uncommon faith. So the short answer is yes, all my books are or attempts to make sense of this complex journey that I’m making in terms of my faith.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”
These words are among the opening lines of the Declaration of Independence. It is a bold declaration, and one that we as a nation should in every era strive towards. However, the reality is that we have yet to attain this ideal. These words written should remind each of us that we are made in the Imago Dei – the image of God. We are entitled to inalienable rights. What is an inalienable right you might wonder? It is a right to freedom; a right to have your voice heard; a right to have clean air, water, food and housing. These rights were given to us by our Creator and therefore, no government should be able to deny them. Again, we have had to strive in many ways to live up to this standard. The horrific legacy of treatment towards indigenous people, race-based chattel-slavery, lynching, black codes, Jim Crow, Voter Suppression, Red-Lining, and Mass Incarceration are indicators to us that we are still on the journey to living up to what was written in our Declaration. Within each generation there is a remnant of people of good faith who must decide to call out the present injustice and reject evil and wrongdoing at every angle.
Sojourner Truth Memorial in Florence, Massachusetts. Lynne Graves, CC BY-ND
During the Abolition Movement, Frederick Douglas and Sojourner Truth were among abolition leaders who were led by their deep Christian faith to push for the abolition of race-based chattel slavery. They looked to the Declaration of Independence as a document that applied the moral laws of creation to our newly formed nation and how all people ought to be treated. The use of the declaration was much a part of the argument for abolition, and rightfully so. The argument was to highlight blatant hypocrisies that were being ignored for the benefit of the planter class. The same argument was used during America’s 2nd Reconstruction, the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s-60s. Our country is much familiar with the name of Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and his famous “I Have a Dream” speech. How many of us truly know what was said in that speech besides “I have a dream”? The correct title of the speech that King delivered, was “Normalcy, Never Again.” Within this speech King is quoted saying, “When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men – yes, black men as well as white men – would be guaranteed the unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” King was appealing to our nation’s better angels and trying to reveal to us the reality that we had not been true to what we wrote on paper. In his final speech, titled “I’ve been to the Mountaintop”, delivered before a Memphis crowd on April 3rd, 1968 the day before he was assassinated, King said “All we say to America is to be true to what you said on Paper”. King was referring back to our Declaration and the bold promises of liberty and justice for all we continue to tout to this very day.
I raise the example of King, Truth, and Douglas, as they were each Christian leaders who gave themselves to the plight of justice in their respective eras. The lives of these American Christians among many others give us a glimpse into how we as Christians can engage in the movement for justice from a biblical worldview in our society today. We must ask ourselves as Christians, how can we aid in helping our nation truly live up to its highest ideals of liberty and justice for all? How can we progress our nation towards valuing everybody as image bearers in and throughout our systems?
First we have to look back at the scriptures and principles of God’s Word. Jesus shares the story of the Good Samaritan in Luke chapter 10:25-37, for good reason. He is breaking down cultural barriers and helping those of his day to see one another as fellow image bearers. Earlier in the chapter Jesus effectively answers a religious law expert’s question regarding the greatest commandments (v. 27). Jesus essentially had the man answer his own question! The passage is as follows: “He answered, ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ ‘You have answered correctly,’ Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.” But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” This is when Jesus shares the famous Good Samaritan story with him and how he was the only one of three people to stop and help the person who had just been beaten and robbed on the side of the road. The exchange between the two continues. In verses 36-37, Jesus asks him, “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?” The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
This passage is timeless. It provides a view into God’s heart towards all of humanity, how Jesus came as the rendering of God’s mercy towards us, and how he requires us to show mercy to others. In Luke 4:18-19, Jesus makes his own opening declaration as he begins his three-and-a-half-year world-changing ministry. He says, “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
We who carry on the Great Commission, who have a duty to spread the Gospel to all, must recognize we have to fulfill this duty in word and deed. The early church in the Book of Acts spread the Gospel and they also initiated humanitarian help to those in need. There are so many issues in our modern world today, that we as the body of Christ have the capability to impact in a positive way. From helping the unhoused, resolving food insecurity in entire communities, to pushing our policy makers to make healthcare more affordable, and taking numerous policy actions that will uplift all people. We are to be a voice for the voiceless. There is no greater place of refuge and strength for the weary, the broken and the hurting than the church today. We must live the Gospel through our actions and that includes standing up for the poor, the marginalized, and the oppressed of society.
Reverend Edward Ford Jr. is a Former Elected Official in Connecticut, a Community Advocate, Organizer, Healthcare Administrator, and Public Theologian. He is currently studying for a Master’s Degree in Divinity at Yale University in New Haven, CT.
Maina
Dr. Glaude
Reverend Edward Ford Jr. is a Former Elected Official in Connecticut, a Community Advocate, Organizer, Healthcare Administrator, and Public Theologian. He is currently studying for a Master’s Degree in Divinity at Yale University in New Haven, CT.