Maya Moore was a WNBA Champion, MVP, and superstar when she left the game in her prime to pursue more justice in the US criminal justice system. The incarcerated man she advocated for, Jonathan Irons, had been advocating for prison reform from the inside. Now the two are married and sharing their story through their book Love & Justice. UrbanFaith sat down with Maya and Jonathan to talk about their incredible story following Jesus to sacrifice and live out their faith by seeking justice for the least of these. Excerpts from the interview below have been edited for length and clarity.
Allen
We are here with Jonathan Irons and Maya Moore Irons to talk about their book Love and Justice, the story of their incredible journeys; Jonathan in advocating for justice and Maya in joining in that justice fight after being a WNBA superstar. Can you talk about just that how the context and the environments that you are you all were in, allowed you to see that injustice in different ways?
Jonathan
I mean, it’s not hard. Like kids that are going on struggling and poverty and in situations that are just unfair and disadvantaged. I volunteered with kids down at the school called Peace Prep. And like they are aware, like they’re very intelligent. They are aware that they’re not getting the same type of resources and as other kids in other schools. They are aware that their city is riddled with addicts and there’s criminal activity that’s going on. They think police don’t like them and don’t care about them. And I won’t say that they’re making it up. Like I had so many different examples of things that just showed me that I wouldn’t be treated like everybody else [growing up]. And it just felt like people were being dismissive. Like my teacher didn’t like that I had so much energy. I was always up and down up and down up and down. Maya had a teacher that basically allowed her to stand around and use her energy and she turned into sports and encouraged her like, burn your energy off. Be a kid. Like for me, I didn’t have that experience. And I was aware of that. I was aware that I was treated different than other kids. I went I went to a friend’s house and they had a toilet. I didn’t have one. I’m like, man, what is that? They were like “oh that’s a toilet. That’s where we use the bathroom.” I’m used to a five gallon bucket and bathing in a tin tub. And then fast forward into prison. Like, I’m seeing like the racial inequality. I’m like, how is it that we’re the minority here [in America], but there are more black people that are in prison than there are any other race. I don’t understand this. What’s going on? And then I started to dig into it. I started to look at statistics. I started to read case law and treaties. I started to watch the news. I started asking questions. I started to let my curiosity just run wild. And I got to really see like all the injustices that are happening, happening around me. It got so bad that I overcame my own fear and I started to advocate for other people. I advocated for ice in prison because they stopped giving it to us for a long time. Filed complaints about that and basically talked to the warden face to face and like explained like, “hey, man, this is a basic human right in here that the Supreme Court has already said that we need yet we are not getting that.” And there is a list of things like you don’t have to worry about getting all those other things that were missing. Just give us this. Like just fighting for basic things. It’s like, if you if you have eyes to see, you cannot miss it. That’s why I kind of share some of the some of the things that were happening in prison to me.
Allen
And what about you Maya?
Maya
I think when we, you know, we’re born into the generation that we’re born into. And Ava DuVernay had a quote, I think she was quoting someone else about our mindset…about how we do this together. And the illustration was you inherit this house. We’re all living in this house. And we look at the house and there’s mold over here. There’s some foundations that are just rotting away. There’s broken windows over here and we say, we didn’t break that window. I’m not responsible for the mold over there. But this is the house that we’ve been given. And so it’s our responsibility to fix it as much as we can as best as we can. We have to look at people as people first and foremost. That’s the fundamental skill. Like in basketball, first thing you learn to do other than dribble is shoot. The fundamental skill is you have to be able to see people. We need other people who’ve gone before to help us know. The house is broken like what do we do? [We go to] that mom, grandma, grandpa, like somebody ahead of us. Help me know how to respond to this and say don’t panic baby I know this looks bad, but we can fix this. I had people to show me this is something we can do to help this system correct. And then also just being in relationship, that’s the majority of the work is not being afraid to be in a relationship with the people who have been stepped on. I had a measure of privilege. And I tried to use that to say hey, I’m no better than you. We’re both humans, you deserve to be treated like a human. I’m just saying everybody have basic humanity. Then your work ethic, or your gifts can kind of, you know take you where it goes but basic humanity cannot be a negotiable. So that’s kind of where I came in of like, I didn’t know this was happening. We need to do something because we can do something with this house that we inherited.
Allen
Can you talk about what you how your faith has motivated and played into [your work]?
Jonathan
Yeah, as you look into the Bible, you won’t find Superman in the Bible. You won’t find Batman. You won’t find people that were flawless outside of Jesus. Like everybody [had flaws]. Moses was a murderer. You could just pick anybody a character in the Bible any person in the Bible and see something. And what that does is it lets you know you’re not alone in your flaws and your weaknesses. And what that does, they call us to remember when we see other people that are struggling that are going through things. It calls us to look at them like, “hey, I have my weaknesses. We all need to have compassion on each other. We all need to help each other.” It calls us to remember those people that are less fortunate than we are.. We are supposed to want them to have the same things that we would want. We have to remember the vulnerable. Everybody’s got something going on, whether they want to admit it or not, whether it’s in the forefront or not, we all wrestle with things. And we are called to just lean into each other and be a part of community and show up for each other. And be present and speak out against injustice and things that are happening in this world. And me reading through the Bible and seeing that playing that out. Like, that is that is that to me that’s God talking to me through this word, and through other people, through my environment. God is asking you to remember those people and care for those people where you can that are disadvantaged.
Allen
Yeah, Matthew 25 right, if you did for the least of these you did it to me. Maya, can you talk about how your faith plays into this work? Because it’s a huge step going from where you were to where you are now and focused on caring for the least of these and seeking justice.
Jonathan
I was one of the least of these.
Maya
Man, understanding God’s story, right? God has given us a story. And he says there’s a competing story. There’s the story of the world, of the flesh, of devil is like what does that mean? And it’s a way of seeing that is contrary to the kingdom of God. Every day, we have a choice to make. Are we going to believe God’s story, which is the real story or are we going to believe this world story, this empire story? I think we just unfortunately see some of these systems that have been set up in our house right… in our culture. That are so empire and just crush people and dehumanize and devalue and use and manipulate and coerce all based off of [the idea that] I want to preserve myself.
I’m so fortunate to have been able to feel like I’ve been walking with the Lord since around middle school where my faith became my own, before my name became a name. I had that basketball experience with an awareness [that] my identity is “I’m God’s daughter,” and my purpose is not building my name [or] becoming the best, or making the most money. That wasn’t what got me up out of bed. And so when the when the time came where God was like really making it clear to my heart the shift that I needed to make out of that sports entertainment rhythm into a different rhythm that was unknown. [What was it] going to look like when I stepped away from the game in 2019? But I knew it was leading me towards doing more in this kingdom story that I was learning more about, which required me to give some stuff up; some of my comforts, my status or whatever you want to call it in order to be the hands and feet of Jesus and show up and do the hard things and get educated humble myself learn from people. When I was able to speak and use my platform, I could be helpful and accurate in trying to encourage and equip people. It’s about seeing God’s kingdom as clearly and as rightly as I can and then being able to live my life in a way that makes that kingdom a reality as much as I can every day. Which again is going to probably mean some sacrifice right, love costs. Jesus did sacrifice a lot for love, restoration, and redemption. But it was for the joy that was set before Him. Looking ahead to that future joy. We might not see the full benefit of what our lives are going to do but we’re tasting it now in bits. Until that fullness comes into play. But it is the center of all that we do.
Allen
Jonathan your story is unfortunately not unique enough that there are so many people who are subject to this criminal justice system that the statistics are pointing to that, but that you offer hope that there is something in the midst of it to be gained and that there are is a fight to be fought. Maya you gave up a lot. But showed there’s more to life than WNBA of success and living out our faith can mean a lot for us. So I just thank you both so much. Any last words of wisdom for young folks were out there?
Jonathan
I want to say you can’t make this type of story up. [The one I lived.] You can’t do that. And I’ll say this, it can be your darkest moments. Don’t forget that God loves you. And God got your back. All you got to do is seek a relationship with Him. I promise you. You won’t regret it.
Allen
Maya any parting words?
Maya
I would just say when you get discouraged because it can be [discouraging], it’s just it’s part of life. If you look into the dark it’s discouraging, but don’t stay there. There is something. There are people. There are things in motion that are happening that you can plug into. I’d say get plugged in to something because we can’t just look at the dark things by ourselves in our inner room. If we’re going to look at hard stuff you’ve to link arms and be like, we’re going to look at this together and we’re going to do something together. So, my encouragement is always get plugged in to something already happening and stuff will happen out of that. Keep encouraged and keep moving forward. The black church has modeled resilient ways for centuries. It’s not a new thing. There’s a legacy there. Learn and plug into those elders. There are people who have [wisdom], there’s jewels that are still alive that we can have conversations with and glean from. Let us continue to lift up our people who have gone before and make sure they’re appreciated and that we’re receiving what they can pour out. Because those are team members that need to be honored and still have something to offer us. Keep learning.
Sound of Hope: The Story of Possum Trot is a film based on the incredible true story of the Martin family from Possum Trot, TX. The husband and wife team of Bishop W.C. Martin and Lady Donna Martin ignited a movement in their small town to adopt 77 children from the foster care system and fostered over 20 themselves. We at down with Nika King who plays Lady Donna to talk about the film and her own reflections on faith and advocacy. The interview below has been edited for length and clarity. Sound of Hope will release in theaters July 4!
Allen
Alright, well thank you so much for the time, Nika. Sound of Hope: The Story of Possum Trot explores the themes of faith, community, and perseverance. And you played First Lady Donna Martin in the film. Can you talk about how she contributes to those themes of faith and community and perseverance in the film?
Nika
Well, first lady, Donna Martin, she received what I’d like to say the call. You know, she got the vision first from God to be an advocate for these vulnerable kids who, you know, were suffering and going through horrible situations. And based on the script and based on what I know, it wasn’t an easy decision because she had to convince her husband as well as her church and community to go on this journey with her. So she’s definitely a pivotal character in this story because without her, there is no moving. There is no sound of hope. You know, there is no possible faith story.
Allen
Right, which is, it just makes so much sense because that’s how our communities work, right? Can you talk about what impact or message you want audiences to get from this film?
Nika
The main message I think most people will leave the theaters with the sense of is faith. We talk a lot about faith as believers and I think sometimes your faith is tested, sometimes you have doubt about a situation or a career or a job. And I think this film really touches the heart of what faith truly is. And I think for me, you know, I can only, I can speak from being an actor as well as being a believer. You know, faith is everything for me. It’s my currency. It’s my cash app. It’s my Zelle, my Venmo. It’s the things I see and the things I don’t see, the things I touch and the things I can’t touch. So I have to really lean on that. And in the film, I think a lot of the characters go through their own journey of what faith looks like at different times in their lives.
Allen
Absolutely. Particularly your character, Donna, I mean, she stands out. You said she’s the first lady. Can you talk about what drew you to her as a character in the film?
Nika
Well, first and foremost, the script was amazing. I immediately wanted to be a part of it. And I let my mom read it because this is my mom’s story. Her mom’s mother was murdered when she was very young, which is still a cold case. And she, as well as my three uncles ended up in foster care. And so eventually, they were adopted by a pastor and his wife, and they were brought up in the church. And so, what immediately grasped me was the idea of playing this very strong woman who literally changed people’s lives and did so with such a burden in the midst of such chaos. I think we also have to understand that this is not an easy thing to do, but if we are truly God’s people, and we’re truly called by God, we have to take care of the vulnerable and in the widow. And this is a calling that, thank God, she didn’t ignore and that she basically was obedient to. And here we are 20 odd years later, and we have a film that the world is going to see.
Allen
And absolutely, you talk a little bit about calling. You recently you Spoke at Better Together, the mental health storytelling summit, you founded this nonprofit organization Rose of Sharon. How does your personal experience with mental health challenges shape your work as an actor and now an activist and your sense of calling and doing both of those things?
Nika
I grew up in a very rough part of Miami. And my childhood by I mean, listen, you know, my childhood wasn’t the best. Let’s just say that my mom was also an addict. She also dealt with mental health [issues]. Rightfully so, right, when You grow up in this world, not knowing who your mother is, not having a relationship with your father until later in life? So for me, it was important to attempt to break generational curses. I didn’t know what was happening as it’s happening. But now in hindsight, looking back, I see that God positioned me and put me in a situation where I was able to use all the pain and all the hurt and everything that I had gone through as a child to bring such powerful dynamic characters to life. And I always say, “hey, I’m glad I worked out that way.” I was able to use it to show people that these wonderful characters like First Lady Donna Martin and like Leslie Bennett on Euphoria, to really show that black women are really the matriarch of our families. And if they’re not well, then the family isn’t well.
Allen
And I love just how you’ve talked about your mom. And it seems like you’ve really gleaned a lot from her and really value that transmission from generation to generation. What advice would you give to aspiring actors or filmmakers or folks who want to tell stories even in our churches that are meaningful and impactful like sound of hope?
Nika
I would say don’t spend too much time trying to be something that you think Hollywood wants. I spent most of my time in LA, you know, 20 plus years molding myself into what I thought I needed to be. And in reality, I was everything I needed to be already because I had God. You know, the gifts and the talents that I had were God given. Nobody gave me talent. I went to class. I studied. I did the work. But ultimately, the Most High was my guiding light. And so I decided from here on out to only do projects that glorify him. Now, that’s not going to be easy. You know, they may be far and few in between, but I know that I have enough talent and creativity and I can do anything that I put my mind to because the most high is on my side. So, I would tell people to really find your voice, spend more time finding your voice than trying to be in a box because they’re going to put you in a box. So find your voice and let God guide you to projects because I’m telling you, it will happen if you if you surrender to that.
Grammy and Stellar Award nominated artist Melvin Crispell III talks with UF about his upcoming EP, his inspiration, and his quick journey to the forefronts of the Gospel Music Industry. More about Melvin is below, the full interview is above.
Melvin‘s musical calling is rooted in a rich gospel legacy, marked by his late parents, renowned gospel composer MelvinCrispell Jr. and singer Tunesha Crispell, and Melvin’s victory winning the 2019 BET “Sunday Best” singing competition. His debut album release, I’ve Got a Testimony, garnered GRAMMY, Stellar and Dove Award nominations, and featured his #1 hit single “Wonderful Is Your Name,” which was penned by his late father, renowned gospel composer MelvinCrispell Jr.
In 2023, Melvin released his second album, “No Failure,” earning him a second GRAMMY nomination in the Best Gospel Performance/Song category for his single “God Is” and a Dove Award nomination for “Alright.” Continuing to carve out his unique path as an artist, Melvin has released two full-length albums, a holiday single, and has performed at events like the Stellar Awards and the Super Bowl Gospel Celebration. Renowned for his powerhouse vocal range and fresh artistic approach, he has garnered acclaim from both industry veterans and fans alike. This summer, Melvin is set to release his third full-length project: an EP featuring covers of gospel classics.
UrbanFaith contributor Maina Mwaura sat down with Linsey Davis her co-author Michael Tyler to talk about her newest children’s book The Smallest Spot of a Dot, which explores our common humanity. Excerpts of the interview are below edited for clarity and length, the full audio interview is above.
Maina:
How do you write these books, Linsey? Like you’re on the news every day. You have a big life going on. How do you do this?
Linsey:
Well, the very easy answer is Michael Tyler. He’s the brain trustee. We started working together on the last book, “The Small Spot of a Dot,” and that was something that had really been on my heart for a long time that I wanted to do a story about the Human Genome Project, but I couldn’t figure out how to conceptualize it in a way that would be palatable for the youngest crowd. And the idea that our DNA is 99.9% alike. So I just had a brainstorming session with Michael, and he immediately came up with the idea of spots or dots. And so every since that, I was like, “All right, Michael, you roll with me. We’re gonna do the next book together as well. And he has been my partner ever since. But you know what? The thing to me is that the kids’ books for me have always been the fun part of what I do. I’ve always considered myself to be a storyteller. It’s just that normally I’m talking about murder and mayhem and missing in chaos. And so I didn’t really always want my son to watch me doing the news, but he wanted to kind of see what mom is doing. But this to me was a way to share the good news. And with my first book, “The World is Wake,” which was really an homage, just a love letter to God, just about His majesty and His creations, including us. I always feel like you make time for the things you’re passionate about. And so as far as like, how do I have the time? I, one, it’s something, it’s a nice positive outlet. It’s something that I want to do. But also I think that we make time for the things that we want to do.
Maina:
Why do you think kids resonate with your book?
Linsey
Well, I’m glad to hear that that is the case. One thing I would say early on, because my son was really my muse, I would always use him as kind of the sample audience. I would look at and study what he found interesting, intriguing in books, what really grabbed his attention, the books that he wanted to keep reading again and again. And I also kind of went into this– I always feel like whatever you do, you study the greats who did it before you. And so for me, everybody would have a different opinion about who the greats are. But for me, it was Dr. Susan, Shell Silverstein. Those were the book authors who I really loved as a child. I looked at what was really effective, what really grabbed my attention. And one of the things I thought was they all had great messaging. There was meaning. They had great rhymes, but there was [meaning]. It wasn’t just about popcorn and bubble gum for the sake of it. There were things that you could really take away. And that’s what I’m hoping [to share]. It’s kind of like candy-coated medicine. Something that’s good for you but tastes good too. It goes down smooth. And I think that’s what at least I’m aspiring for. And I hope that it is resonating with kids.
Maina
So you come up with these ideas. Do you call Michael up immediately and go, hey, I got another idea? How does that work?
Linsey
Maybe we had two or three phone calls. Michael, you could help me remember first small spot of a dot when we were coming up with that original idea. But I want to say it was within that first phone call that you came up with the dots. You correct me if I’m wrong. Do you remember how that happened?
Michael
That is correct. Because I remember you calling me up after you had done a reading to a classroom of children. And I think it was. And you discussed the human genome project with a classroom of children. And you were fascinated that they were about it. And you called me up and said, there’s something here. We got to figure out how to get them to understand that. And for me, the lessons that I got in the life that lasted the longest all came by way of metaphor. My mother was a metaphor magician. And so I always thought if you give somebody a physical model to keep in their mind, they will always be able to associate the lesson with it. And then genes and double helixes and things like that are far too complex for children to comprehend. Far too complex for many adults. For me to comprehend. And so I figured particularly when Linsey and I wanted to focus on this one salient truth that came out of human genome project. And that is that 99.9% of all of our genes are alike, are identical. That only 1/10 of 1% is different than it counts for our individual looks and individual distinction. And I am thinking, how do we show them how much that 99.9 is and how much that 0.1 is? And I could do that just by getting them to understand something that’s already in their universal frame of reference. And that’s bots and dots.
Maina
I’m talking to people all across here who are asking me, are we going to make it through this? And when I see you on in the morning times, sometimes when you’re filling in, I always go, how does she do it? There’s so much bad news. So here’s a simple question. Are we going to make it through this season? I mean, are we going to come out OK, remembering the 99% here?
Linsey
Oh, yeah. I mean, to me, there’s no benefit in being a pessimist. Right? It goes back to one of my favorite quotes to Henry Ford, whether you think you can or you can’t do something, you’re right. And so, if we set out thinking, oh, boy, this is the end, then that is going to just be the beginning of the end for you personally. Right? And so I’ve always been a glass half full kind of a girl. I feel like whether it was Vietnam, whether it was the series in the ’60s, where you had JFK, MLK, RFK assassinated, I’ll bring up this quick point. I was fortunate enough to be able to do an event with Carol Simpson at the beginning of the year. And I was telling– we were talking to a class of journalists that teach at Franklin College in India. And I was saying to her– and really, they were asking questions, but I had a question for her. And that was about are things as bad now as they were then? And she felt like even though, yes, the world is on fire right now, it was so much worse in the ’60s. That was her perspective. And so the people then in the ’60s, maybe they had that same mindset of, boy, how are we going to make it? Is this the end? But they’re just like everything in life. It’s cyclical. They’re upturns and they’re downturns. The leaves fall off. They dry up. But then in spring comes the warm weather and the sunshine. And they’re back again and new revitalized. And I just feel like that’s my outlook on life. So even when things seem like, boy, just can’t get any worse and somehow it still does, I think that’s where my faith comes in. I mean, I just have to believe that as Jeremiah 29:11 says, God has a plan. And it’s for good. It’s for hope. And I just kind of live by that. And I think to not have faith is when we would become so down and out and really feeling like nothing good can come of this. I just choose to be optimistic and choose hope.
Maina
All right, Michael, I’ve got to ask this question, man. Where do you come up with these things? You take them. And it seems like you take them to another level, man. I appreciate you saying that. Do it, man. I really appreciate you saying that. I think part of it, a large part of it for me, is intrinsic. I think that everyone has a certain intrinsic trait, quality, ability that is their genius. For some people, we see them flying through there and dunking basketballs. For some people, we hear virtuosity on a horn when I listen to John Coltrane. There’s a genius there. And so for me, part of it was I had this ability, that no matter what I looked at, I had to break it down to its least common denominator. But through the years, my brain was always trained to constantly breaking things down, analyzing things. And then that gave me the ability to do reverse order on it. How do I construct it? And as quickly as I could break it down, I was able to bring it back together again and have a different understanding of it. And my fascination with words was what really drove me to be able to do this with respect to writing. Because as long as I can remember, five years old, I was always fascinated with how language came to be. Why do we even have words?
Maina
So one of my questions is, where do you get these words from? That I ended up writing? Yeah. Because the poor children, which the books are hard, Michael, they’re not easy, right? Where does that come from?
Maina
It’s really– you hit it on the head. It’s really not easy. The hardest part is the rightful for me, our children, because you have the fewest amount of words that you have to work with. And I think what enabled me is, early on in life, when other people were– for the second, third, fourth, grade, fifth, grade, sixth grade reading books, I was reading dictionaries. Because I looked at dictionaries as a way to people look at crayons. And to me, crayons allow you to draw a beautiful picture. And to me, words allow you to speak a beautiful picture. And I always wanted to be able to create the best image possible about what was in my head by using my mouth. And that meant that I had to paint with words. I had to draw with words. I couldn’t do it with tempered paints. I couldn’t do it with finger paints. I couldn’t do it with crayons. And so instead of having that eight crayon box, I was always trying to get that 148 crayon box. And that’s what’s in my head. So it started for you early. It’s what you’ve got here.
Maina
One thing I’d like to draw before we get off is– ask Lindsay, are we going to make it through?
Michael
Yeah. We’re going to make it through this season. I do wonder sometimes. She was optimistic about it. She was optimistic. And she used the word hope. And I want to give a definition for that word. Because oftentimes what I’ve learned in life is people use words and they won’t fully understand what we’re saying. That’s why we have so much communication, confusion. If you were asked a 50-year-old and a 5-year-old to define the word hope, both of them would struggle with it. If you asked them to define a word trust or truth, they would both struggle with it. And so one of my exercises in life growing up was always a write-down my own definition for a word. And the way I describe hope– and I think it varies on to what Linsey’s optimism is– to me, hope is an emotional alignment to possibility. Where you see no possibility, you are hopeless. And hopelessness to me is the most dangerous thing to the human mind. That’s what causes us to completely give up on everything. And so as long as you can align yourself to the possibility of something being better or something being more or something being recovered or something being redeemed, as long as you can align yourself to that possibility, even if it’s a 1% chance, a 1% chance is a 100% greater than no chance at all. And so I always try to align myself to the possibility of what humanity can excel to, because we’ve nowhere near gotten to that level. And there’s a big margin for us to go ahead and move towards.
Have you ever wanted to pray, but it felt like a chore? Have you ever been seeking God for direction but felt like you didn’t know if you could hear Him? Have you ever wanted to pray but simply didn’t know what to say? Pastor Andrew Carter has written the book for all of us on how refocus our prayer lives. The Privilege of Prayer: Find Healing, Transformation, and Answers, is Pastor Andrew’s guide on how to help us connect with God in ways many never thought possible. The full interview is above. Excerpts and more about Pastor Andrew are below.
UF: We are excited today to have another amazing author, minister, pastor, leader, pastor Andrew Carter, who is sharing with us and we’re talking about his book, The Privilege of Prayer: Find healing, Transformation, and Answers. Can you talk about why it’s important that you frame prayer not as a formula or a way to make something happen, but really focused in on prayer as a relationship with God?
Pastor Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. I believe that all of our relationships really trickle down from our relationship with God. And I talk about just that. If you struggle to communicate with God who loves you, right, even with all of your flaws and mistakes and blunders, if you struggle to talk to the greatest lover of your soul, what does that look like when you communicate to somebody who’s not going to love you like that, your spouse or a friend? If you struggle to spend time with God, like how hard is it going to be to spend time with other people in a way that is devoted and is intimate like you would with God?
UF:
You developed a discipline of prayer in jail amid a community and I think that’s so key that we have to be surrounded by people to help disciple us and raise us up in the faith. Can you talk a little bit about why that’s important and kind of your journey to being discipled in prayer?
Pastor Andrew:
Yeah, yeah, as far as the discipline aspect goes, I grew up unruly with a lot of instability, both of my parents were drug addicts and so what I found is that in chaos, I typically match my environment. I’m chaotic as well, but when there is a sense of consistency and discipline and stability, I thrive. And so, I understood early on when you discipline yourself consistently it always equals results and I found that out in the physical fitness realm before the spiritual realm. And so really, I just adapted what worked in the physical, applied it to the spiritual and watched my prayer life just take off.
UF: Can you talk about why it’s important to see prayer as an opportunity and an honor and a privilege instead of as an obligation?
Pastor Andrew:
I mean, if you ever try to put together any kind of a toy the day after Christmas or try to put together a cabinet from Ikea, any of those things, they all come with an instruction manual. And, you know, I know that men tend to be adventurous, and we think that we can put things together without the guide. But nine times out of ten, you’ve got extra pieces laying around. You don’t know where things are supposed to go. It’s probably not sturdy. It doesn’t look the way that the manufacturer had made it out to be. It’s important that we’re praying because that is a part of the design that God made for us, this communion, for this intimacy, for this communication. So, rather than looking at it like you said an obligation, like we have the privilege to go directly to the source of the instruction, not just the instruction manual, the writer of the manual one on one to get all the direction guidance, vision, happiness, peace, enjoy that we could ever imagine. It’s really a privilege.
UF:
Can you talk a little bit about how we can overcome some barriers that keep us from connecting and communicating with God in prayer?
Pastor Andrew:
Absolutely. I would say that most of the barriers that people experience come from a lack of knowledge or understanding of the enemy uses lies to try to prevent you or stall you from entering that relationship. They’ll say “did he really say that” or you can’t hear his voice or he’s not listening and we allow these barriers to come between us and God and so one of the things that I preach all day and I’m not trying to be too preachy but like, you can’t say that God’s not talking to you if your Bible is closed, right? You can’t say that he’s not talking to you when he speaks primarily through the Word. And so many people are trying to hear God’s voice but they’re so attuned to what the world says and they got the world turned all the way up they got His voice turned all the way down. Many times, they’re not barriers at all, they’re what we perceive as barriers, but it’s many times just us not understanding who we are, based on what the scripture tells us.
UF:
Second to last question I have you a lot of the folks who are listening and hearing and engaging with us they’re young adults, and they’re trying to figure out how do I ground myself?
Pastor Andrew:
Yeah, I love that question because I work with young adults, myself here in Los Angeles and one of the things that I see about young adults right now are probably some of the most spiritual and connected individuals that I’ve met. I’m surrounded by [people in their 20s], and they are so spiritual they’re so in alignment with the voice of God, like there is an anointing on this net I get goosebumps talking about it there’s there there’s an anointing on this next generation. One of the things that they lack is consistency and discipline. They’re up until two three in the morning, doing God things right. They’re at prayer meetings and they’re doing all of these amazing things for the Lord, but they can’t even keep a regular job because they’re just following the Spirit wherever the Spirit goes and I think that a lot of them are missing that solid practical discipline and consistency because it’s not one or the other it’s both and right you need to have that that kind of spiritual, you know, alignment with the Lord but it also needs to be in a way that is discipline and consistent and has order so if I were to say one thing I would say, get yourself around a man or woman of God, who has gone before you who exemplifies the discipline and consistency. Mentorship is probably one of the most important things that I’ve done. I have leaders and mentors and accountability partners and overseers in my life who I check in with every week, to check my blind spots, and it has helped me grounded. So, in the same way young adults, don’t be afraid reach out and get yourself some good solid mentors and individuals who will disciple you.
UF:
What is the piece of advice that you would give to folks who are trying to deepen their prayer lives so what what’s the number one thing you would tell them as they go to get your book for more.
Pastor Andrew:
To be to just show up. I think that that’s one of the hardest things to do I was in the fitness industry for a long time I owned a gym, and one of the hardest things that people struggle with is just showing up like once they get there. You know, they’re able to go through the motions but getting there is many times the battle, so the same with prayer sometimes. The words come, Holy Spirit will intercede, we know Jesus intercedes on our behalf. God will speak to us, but many times it’s just getting there. So, I would encourage people to carve out some time, set an alarm, turn everything off and just show up, and you’ll be surprised what God does in those spaces that we create and allow. He’s not always looking for ability. He’s looking for availability, and I’m a testament to that, because I am probably the least qualified to write a book, I’m probably the least deserving. There are guys who are way smarter, better communicators, more articulate, have spent more time in the Word. But the one thing that I’ve done is I made myself available and because of that availability, He’s overlooked my ability and he’s made sure that I’ve been fully prepared and equipped for every situation not by my strength, but by His. It starts with showing up
Andrew is the founder and lead pastor of Royal City Church in Los Angeles, California. He runs a popular live YouTube Bible study called ‘Coffee and Prayer’ that streams on all major podcast platforms. He appears on television networks, podcasts and stages preaching the good news of Jesus. Andrew travels the world guest speaking at conferences, churches, and events.
Andrew has become an inspiration for others who face difficult times and struggles. With millions of followers, Andrew has become an influencer for God’s Kingdom. He is a leader, speaker, writer, husband and father. Andrew and his wife, Kyra, live in Los Angeles, California. You can find Andrew on all social media platforms @andrewfcarter
Kierra, you are also one to speak into young women at the same time too. Does that come from the family?
Kierra
I think it does. And just from what I’ve seen, my father and my mother, they are spiritual leaders, spiritual advisors. And my mother, like it’s funny you’re asking that because I just got off the phone with her and we’re planning our women’s weekend. For my mother, I think it comes from her sisterhood. We’ve seen the Clark sisters do their thing musically. But I think her bond and her desire for, you know how you are about your siblings, I want my sister to win. She has one brother as well, but he’s much older. So having that connection and always wanting to see your sister win and seeing what you and your sisters can do together and how you can empower other women and then me seeing what my mom and my aunts have done. And then here I am. I’m like, I have a brother, but I can make a community of sisters and I’m important to them. So I absolutely think I draw that from, I can call my family, my bank, I draw that from that bank as well. I think just from my personal experiences with relationships and having best friends. I’m sure you’ve probably heard it where women will say, “Oh honey, I can’t get along with women.” And then “all I can get along with is men.” And then it’s like, well, if you find the right woman that you connect with, you really can get some answers. And we even see it biblically, where we see women drawing from the well, we see both Mary’s coming together from different aspects of life. And then we saw what they did with Jesus. We see Esther, we see Ruth and Naomi, so when you read that and you believe God’s Word and also you experience a liberating relationship from a sisterhood that may not be biological, but it could just be covenantal. If you know what I mean? You just want to give [it to] the world that so that they can see it, because the world has kind of demonized relationships and they’ve put so many labels that are associated with toxicity. And it’s like, if only you’d get in touch with the God ordained relationship, you’d see how powerful it is. I think I’m pulling from the familial bank, but I’m also pulling from my spiritual bank to create these things that are women’s empowerment.
I found my voice again from my family. So I’m going through school and I’m talking about it in the book. I wanted to sing an R&B song and I was trying to fit in with the girls there. And I knew if my mom or my dad found out that I was trying to sing, you know, an R&B song about getting weak in the knees or the boy being mine, I knew they would have just, you know, shut it down. And my mother surprised me and she said, girl, you ain’t singing that song. This is inappropriate. You know, and I talk about it in the book. And just going through that journey…it felt like I was being embarrassed. For adults, it feels like an attack when it’s actually accountability. And I think that is what my mother was doing, holding me accountable and redirecting me to purpose. And literally that day changed my life. It set me up for my debut. And I found my voice and became a voice for a generation and connecting so many listeners to the Gospel by way of singing. And that’s how I found my voice.
Maina
Your last book, The Vibes You Feel, where were you at when God told you to write the book?
Kierra
Oh, man, that’s a good question. So the vibe you feel is actually just from everyday kinds of situations. I don’t even know how to explain it. That’s such a good question. Where was I at? I was everywhere. I was just living if I could just say that.
Maina
Why has it resonated so with girls and women?
Kierra
Yeah, I don’t know what the call is. I know it’s a call. It’s a heaven call. Because I know that I have a responsibility to the age group that are in their 20s. I don’t know what that is. But so what’s funny is that I went through a space where they annoyed me so much. I was just so annoyed with ages 20 to like 30. And I’m only 36. And I think it went, I think the frustration came from me wanting to pour into young women as I’ve been poured into. And I saw how helpful it was for me. And I remember myself in my 20s, where I was on the brink of knowing it all, but also honestly saying in myself, you don’t know it all. But I found those advisors that I could connect to and relate to that I felt comfortable with being a student and didn’t feel like I had to do a match with them if that makes sense. It was that and then all of the wrong decisions that I made in my 20s. I made some bad decisions in relationships. And then being a PK (Pastor’s Kid), they say they’re like the worst kids. It’s like you got some PKs who are that kind. But you have some who are like, “well, actually, I really do want to live like Jesus.” But I do have a side to me that I think everybody else may have as well. So that’s where I was in that place, though. It’s a conglomeration of those experiences of me, you know, just kind of walking through life and then seeing the essence in valuable and God ordained relationships versus relationships that I was trying to make work. And I often ignored God’s voice, but also would say, I don’t hear God. And it’s like, no, you hear him, you just don’t hear him the way that you think you’re supposed to hear him. And so that’s what you get from the book. It’s literally me evolving in my relationship. And over the course of time, just collecting data like; “my gift of discernment is actually far more on than I thought.” And it was like that in my 20s. But I just kept doubting myself. But that’s where I was. And that’s why it’s a book. But even with me then growing to love the generation that I’m responsible for that are in their 20s; it’s like, this is why I connect with you so much because I know it. I get it. I’ve been there. And I know how it feels to feel like you have so much to do, but you don’t know which steps to take and you’re brilliant.
Maina
When you hit send on The Vibes You Feel, did you feel like you said it all? Did you feel like, okay, this is ready?
Kierra
Yes, I did feel like it was ready. The only challenge that I honestly faced was trying to make sure it didn’t sound so much like another memoir. Because I still wanted to give God and his scriptures. So yes, though, because it is so many good moments in there that really happened. Even with my working relationship with me trying to find like a personal assistant, it was like, this person is good, but they’re not called to be your personal assistant. They’re not bad. And it was things that I could pinpoint. If you know what I mean. And I just kept misplacing people. It was like, you’re called to be in their life before a season and not for this space. And I couldn’t play victim because I knew. So, the book is basically me, talking about my work choices. It’s me talking about my relational choices when I was dating. It was like, you knew this guy was no good, but you kept trying to make it work. People prophesied to you, and you even saw bad habits. So those stories were true, and it actually happened. And that’s when I saw God talking to me. So that right there was when I was like, “yeah, this one is the one.” And I really hope more people get a chance to read that book because I really think it is a blessing for a lot of young people, for sure.
Maina
So Jordan [your husband], can we talk about him for just a minute? What is it like? You guys are definitely in love. So how do you find a Jordan?
Kierra
That’s a good question. I remember a lot of people saying marriage takes work. And I heard them. I’m a good listener. Like I listen and I take the note. But when I got in it, I said, oh, baby, this take work. I don’t know if you can put that in writing. It takes work. And you know, I think it also takes even a village for the married couple. I always say the village is not just for the child, it’s for the adult too. And you got to have people around you two who can even see sometimes what’s going on. They can even see your bad days, but they don’t charge it to your marriage and what your entity is called to do in the earth. And that contributes to the days when you must choose to love, if I can say it that way. But Jordan is amazing. He’s an outstanding man. And I think what makes what makes marriage possible with this man of valor is his heart. His heart is always what push through. So if I were to tell [a young woman] what to look for, it is to do what my mama told me, make sure that man loves God more than he loves you. Because when you can’t get them, God’s gonna get them. And literally, when I couldn’t get certain memos to my husband, I just say, “you know what, you get it God.” I go in my room right here in my office, and I would cry and say, God, I need you to do it. And I’m sure [my husband’s] done the same for me. And then I think to just making sure you have a friendship. So, I also tell young women, I’ve done it both ways and not with my husband, but I’ve done it both ways as in I was out of the will of the Lord. And then I did it God’s way. And I saw why he says don’t have sex before marriage, because it’ll blur the lines and you can’t see what you need to see to make a good choice for marriage. You’ll just make a choice off of an attachment and how you feel. Jordan and I, we went through a process of abstinence, and we lived before the Lord, we prayed, and that made all the difference. So that’s what I would tell a young girl, make sure you get his background too, you know, and pray and ask the Lord, give me somebody that loves [God] because I need them to be convicted if ever they decide to do something that ain’t right. And so that’s how Jordan and I are doing. We’re doing really well though, we’re loving each other, we’re growing together, and we’re willing to just love each other and have fun. The other day we were arguing, we just started laughing like, this is stupid. So, we’re even growing to laugh and argue.
Nika
Allen
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