I hate to beat an old comedy trope to death, but in this case, I couldn’t muster any other appropriate response. I recently saw the story by Robert Patrick of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that Flame, Lecrae and Da TRUTH have filed suit against Katy Perry and Capitol Records for copyright infringement. In a stunning reversal of musical tradition, these Christian emcees are claiming that someone else took their style — specifically alleging that Perry’s 2013 single “Dark Horse” bears a more-than-coincidental resemblance to their 2008 hit “Joyful Noise.”
REALLY?!?
This lawsuit is a ridiculous embarrassment, not only for these emcees specifically, but for all of Christian hip-hop.
See, even though CHH has been around for a long time (at least three decades), its popularity as a genre subculture is still dwarfed by the global footprint that hip-hop has left in the general market. Thus, when news about any Christian hip-hop artist makes the rounds in the blogosphere, it impacts the public’s perception of Christian hip-hop music overall.
Now, let me be clear — I’m not saying this lawsuit is entirely without merit. On the contrary, fans of Flame and Lecrae had been making the comparison for months before this suit, which is how the Katy Perry single was brought to the artists’ attention in the first place. So obviously, there is some sort of similarity. Judge for yourself by listening to a Soundcloud mix of both songs for comparison purposes, compiled by Flame’s DJ, Cho’zyn Boy.
Go listen and come back. (I’ll wait.)
After you listen, it’s clear that an argument can be made, from a purely intellectual property standpoint, that the suit has merit. There is definitely a resemblance between the two songs.
But to me, that’s all it is — a resemblance. In the same way that the overall concepts and storylines of the Ubisoft video game WATCH_DOGS and the CBS procedural Person of Interest resemble each other, because they both deal extensively with electronic surveillance and vigilante justice. Both “Joyful Noise” and “Dark Horse,” at least in their beginning sections, have a similar basic drum pattern and a similar synth lead line. But the latter never sampled the former. And in neither case is that beginning section the entire basis, creatively or aurally, of the overall song recording. The songs have different layers of instrumentation with different chord structures, different melodies, at different tempos, and in different keys. If I were the judge, I’d throw it out.
But for a moment, let’s just set that aside. Let’s assume that from a legal, intellectual property perspective, this lawsuit is airtight, and no judge would ever dare rule in favor of the defendants. There are still four huge reasons why this lawsuit was a bad idea.
“Wait, who’s Katy Perry again?”
“Wait, who’s Katy Perry again?”
1. It’s embarrassing because it doesn’t make sense.
According to the Post-Dispatch article, the suit includes the following complaint: “Joyful Noise” has been “irreparably tarnished by its association with the witchcraft, paganism, black magic, and Illuminati imagery evoked by the same music in ‘Dark Horse.’”
Seriously? That’s laughable.
First of all, many of Flame and Lecrae’s fans are children in conservative Christian households who aren’t allowed to listen to secular radio or watch MTV, VH1, or even YouTube without adult supervision. They probably have no idea that Katy Perry song exists. And secondly, if they do manage to hear it in their friend’s mom’s minivan or at the mall or whatever, they’ll probably think that Katy Perry’s song sounds like Flame, not vice versa. It’s just human nature… people always compare later music to whatever they heard earlier. So if anything, it’s Katy Perry’s rep that would be tarnished, although even that is a stretch.
2. It’s embarrassing because it makes the plaintiffs look naive at best and hypocritical at worst.
Hip-hop blogger Sketch the Journalist
, in a brief reflection piece at The Houston Chronicle’s “Jesus Musik” blog, said that Flame himself released a single that bore an uncanny resemblance to another collaboration between Bruno Mars and Eminem. The implication is, y’know, glass houses and all that. (Here’s a link if you don’t know the cliché.)
Frankly, even if you don’t think it’s hypocritical to accuse someone else of doing something that you appear to have done, it’s still a naive way to examine the realities of music production in general, especially in hip-hop. We’re not talking about some ornate, neo-baroque melody here. We’re talking about a simple beat with an 808-style clap on beat three, with a synth line that travels across monotonous 8th notes, that gradually shift pitch down.
There are similar attributes in literally thousands of different rap songs created in the last half-decade, enough to make plausible the idea that sometimes producers can come up with similar ideas at the same time. This happens all the time in comedy — think of all the Mens Wearhouse jokes after George Zimmer was fired — so it’s plenty likely to happen in music, too. So to claim otherwise makes several veteran hip-hop artists seem like they have no idea how the sausage is made.
3. It’s embarrassing because it looks unbiblical.
Consider the fake words of Not Jesus (or if you prefer your fake quotes with real authentic butter taste, I Can’t Believe It’s Not Jesus):
“You’ve heard it said ‘love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say, FILE SUIT against those who persecute you. Sue, and then after the inevitable news cycle churn, settle for a decent amount. But make sure those files stay sealed, or you’re gonna have a messy P.R. situation on your hands, so it’s best to just avoid the press for awhile. Stay in the dark, that’s what I always say.”
Wait, Jesus never said that? Well, what did he say instead?
According to theology professor Jay Phelan of North Park Theological Seminary in Chicago, Jesus said something that Christians have been trying to explain away for centuries — that we’re supposed to bless our enemies. Even assuming that Katy Perry, once a celebrated Christian who has since publicly renounced her faith, should be classified as an enemy combatant to militant emcees like Flame and Da T.R.U.T.H., they still missed a golden opportunity to do something to bless her.
I mean honestly… what’s going to capture someone’s attention more, a lawsuit because you violated their “Christian” intellectual property (I included scare quotes around “Christian” in reference to what I call The Sentient Song Fallacy) or a humblebrag tweet shouting out to Perry and a link that highlights the similarity? The latter has a chance to build a relational bridge, which, hey you never know, with God all things are possible … could result in Perry, like the prodigal, coming back to the faith. But the former is pretty much a legal transaction and little else.
and finally…
4. It’s embarrassing because it looks like like a naked money grab.
In case you think I’m being a little too pollyanna about all this, I’m a musician too. I understand the need to protect one’s intellectual property. And I certainly have no sympathy for the defendants, all of whom are, I’m sure, quite wealthy.
But this isn’t Metallica lashing out against Napster, or Prince refusing to be on Spotify. The existence of Katy Perry’s “Dark Horse” in no way inhibits or prevents Flame, Lecrae or Da TRUTH from making money selling “Joyful Noise.” If anything, it might even cause more sales, as fans flood message boards accusing Perry of copying the original beat. So this isn’t just a matter of independent musicians protecting their livelihood.
There was a time, not long ago, when even the idea of making a decent living as a hip-hop musician doing primarily faith-based music, was so far-fetched, it was borderline delusional. But guys like Lecrae, Andy Mineo, Trip Lee, Flame and Da T.R.U.T.H. — all current or former members of the Reach Records crew — have changed that perception. I don’t know any of them personally and have no access to their financial records, but from the outside it’s obvious that they’re all enjoying a level of exposure and sales that were virtually impossible for similarly skilled and anointed emcees to achieve in decades past.
But along with that success come the trappings of wealth. Like the parable of the rich fool, there’s always a temptation to rely on material wealth instead of God’s provision. And I’m not sure if that’s what motivated this lawsuit, but it sure doesn’t look like they’re motivated by God’s glory or what would be the most effective public witness. I’ve defended Lecrae in the past for collaborating with secular artists, but this seems pretty indefensible.
Lawsuits like this are an unfortunate reality in the music business. If anything, I’d bet this was just a case of an overzealous attorney who gave bad advice to three of his clients, all of whom happen to be Christian hip-hop artists. I’d like to think that this lawsuit is not a true indicator of their heart motivation for doing music, and that three careers that span over a decade of making authentic, Christ-focused hip-hop won’t be derailed over this. If it can happen with Kirk Franklin, it can happen here, too.
But I hope this can be settled quickly and quietly.
So get it done, fellas! And don’t make me upgrade my “Really?!?” to a “SERIOUSLY, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!”
You saying that its embarrassing for CHH to sue them clearly states that you may not be saved and unashamed you simply can’t take anything from any artist that is theirs without permission you there argument is extremely valid you your argument on watch dogs is terrible if that’s the case every marvel, DC comic movies and other company’s that’s produce movies should be sued all the plots are the same, we are talking about someone taking your music not story, not lyrics. Please wake up
5. We should let people steal without repercussion.
You should have just led with that point. That is what you’re saying here, and it’s ludicrous.
How is it really theft if no property was actually stolen? I love the Dark Horse song and the Joyful Noise song both. Intellectual Property laws are the problem, they stifle creativity and innovation.
It is super frustrating to hear anyone defend katy on this one. It’s a copy, no way a coincidence! They should get the best lawyers they can afford and really go for the jugular on this. Hopefully katy is embarrassed by the whole thing and so she should be, She’s taken a clean, moral song and put her own foul lyrics in it. Words like :she’ll eat your heart out like Jeffrey Dahlmer” are just sick. Katy Perry is a sicko and should be ashamed.
God love Katy Perry!
I just listened to the tracks and the Katty’s song can not be innocent, they have the same intro, synth and drums. That cannot be a co-insidence. And it is embarrassing to not know how far Christian hip hop went. Those who dont know why it’s not successfull, do research. The more toxic your music is, the more successful you will be. This is not just some religious song, it’s a stolen song. As other songs, it is also protected.
I take offense to the first assumption made that most of Lecraes and Flames fans being teenagers living in a conservative household where you’re not allowed to watch YouTube or listen to secular music. In fact, many of us know who Katy Perry is and we’re just Christian teenagers looking for an alternative to the negativity of many (but not all) hip hop songs. This assumption is very stereotypical, and I know many people who would prefer
Lecrae or Flame over Kanye or Jayz because of a more positive Christian message,not because we are forced to.
Seconded. I thought that argument seemed unnecessarily hostile and had no truth that I could find. Most articles on here are fairly well thought out, but it seems like this one was written by someone with a rather extreme view against the grain who wanted his voice heard, which is always fine, but acknowledging truth in the other side’s belief helps your argument not come off as biased beyond merit.
Well said!! You did an excellent job of articulating my thoughts as well as many others.
Your a goof. Simple as that.
Katy perry didn’t only copy the song her handlers made part of their illuminati agenda. You American sheeple just let it happen.
Oh, and where do you hail from exactly? “American Sheeple” are you retarded? The US is the country that is there to always.lend a hand. Granted l, no government is perfect. There are definitely things I hate about this country, but Its still the only place I’d want to be. Brits are basically still a rigid class hierarchy with a queen near the end with a very difficult to respect crown prince. Talk about the states all You want. But when there is a disaster of almost any kind, and the first government body that will mobilize to help will be The United States of America.
I’m sorry to say this, but the two songs are not nearly as similar as people are making them out so be…. And I agree with the article. If anything this will just raise the profile of the Jesus Guys.
They are totally different songs there are only similar in the behinning… get over it people it
I guess youve never heard of something at least 85% of music producers do..its called SAMPLING!! They looped the sample…Sometimes they do it and if they do not get clearance the original artist has the right to sue and get back royalties…its obviously a Flame sample – thats been slowed down…chopped and screwed..listen for yourself.https://m.soundcloud.com/rapzilla/flame-joyful-noise-katy-perry-dark-horse-song-comparison
Mr. Greenidge:
You say in your article, “First of all, many of Flame and Lecrae’s fans are children in conservative Christian households who aren’t allowed to listen to secular radio or watch MTV, VH1, or even YouTube without adult supervision. They probably have no idea that Katy Perry song exists.” And you talk about the lawsuit being laughable, the fact that you used this as a reason for the suit to be ridiculous is laughable! The majority of CHH songs deal with more mature, real life situations and surely aren’t the music of “children” who live in such strict Christian households. Furthermore, if you look at the culture of this country, hip hop & rap are associated with the culture that you say is blocked in this stricted Christian households, so what makes you think that that said household would be playing CHH? I feel like there would be more contemporary or tradition Christian music being played! Go look at any CHH website, particularly Rapzilla and you will find that your so-called majority that listens to CHH is in fact the minority! This point is ridiculous, and like many of your other points add no value to the story at all & is filled with many logical fallacies I learned in high school! Please check your facts, about many things you said in the article! I myself do not agree with the lawsuit to some degree but your points brought up don’t help me to further disagree or critically think about the situation at all.
I SUPPORT U IN THIS, U JUST SPOKE MY MINE,
Hi Miranda,
Thanks for your comment. I’m sorry for the time delay, I’ve been traveling and whatnot and was away from this site when the article originally dropped. I’m just seeing your comment now.
It seems that most of what you disagree with is a small part of the article, though I admit, it was my weakest point. I wasn’t trying to say that no Christians in general ever listen to secular music. As a matter of fact, if you search for my “Gospel Identity Crisis” article series on this site, you’ll see that I generally believe that the secular-Christian divide in music today is pretty artificial, and I myself listen to plenty of “secular” music by a variety of people.
My point, which I should’ve articulated more clearly, is that even to the extent that people who enjoyed “Joyful Noise” know about Katy Perry and listen to her music, it doesn’t seem likely that the existence of the KP tune would somehow ruin their enjoyment of “Joyful Noise,” given that it came first by about three years or so.
I’m curious which facts you want me to check?
I’m not here to express any opinion regarding the article. I jus wanted to say keep doing wat ur doing. I’m sure it’s hard to write about certain things especially regarding faith or celebs that people love and adore whether in the secular world or faith based world. Beautiful thing is we all have a voice and an opinion and with my voice (keyboard in this case) I want everybody and anybody reading this comment to know I love you. God Bless!
Ik would recommend you go to a youth group and listen to the music played there. Trust me I’m a youth pastor and churches around the world listen to all kinds of music including secular in youth groups. If that’s part of your argument then you’ve lost already. Secondly, when I first heard Dark Horse I immediately thought of Joyful Noise. Allowing an artist to not respond to something that is stolen and saying its biblical is way off the mark. That’s all I’ll say for now
You have an interesting definition of theft.
I totally agree with you I grew up very Christian but the conservative type. I could still listen to rock still watch and read sciencfiction/ fantasy material, etc I come from a family of Lawyers
Why done we all let whomever created the wheel and let’s sue every tire manufacturer since the dark ages because they clearly have all stolen the Wheel for our car, plane, trains and components in a lot man made things. Any thing that is Round and is allowed to turn will be sued!!!!
I sound like a lunatic but it is true. We can’t even find a defendant because it was clearly a cave made that craved 2 stones together etc. they have died thousands of years ago
Everything gets recycled and copied and borrowed unless it’s more than 80% same who cares
It’s like saying whomever created the Hat or underware, clothes ingeneral in their basic form needs to get Sued. There are thousands of examples we are not oringinal it’s 2014
If you were born in the 1800 and created things in the early 1900 when they created copywrite laws yes then I guess you can sue but remember Edison, Ford etc got some ideas from Famous Artist so in reality the descendants from like Leonardo da Vinci and many others like him in their time can sue all these companies and yes regular people and get Compensated!!
To me it’s Money Driven and yes some beats are similar but not even close to the same song
Business is business…christian or not!
Are you guys retarded? Why focus on this one song? What about “By the Grace of God” on the same album? Why would she purposely tarnish God on a song and then thank God later for saving herself from committing suicide? Also, she started her career doing gospel music as a teenager…
Its funny how blind you are lalalala. Just because she wrote one song regarding it as “By The Grace of God” doesn’t take away the level of satanic possession that she is.. see one thing is to repent and completely turn your life around and another thing is to repent and acknowledge God when it is beneficial! Just like you said dont focus only on her ONE song.. look at all her other blasphemous music that promotes nothing but evil! Not judging just speaking some facts. And correct me if im wrong. These celebrities now a days call themselves Christians and say “I would like to thank GOD” while receiving an award for a song that talks about sex, drugs, witchcraft, suicide, and among other things. I dont know about you but my God does not support acts of such nature so therefore its a slap in the face to him.. Just really think about the people you look up or try to defend specially if you consider yourself a believer of Christ!
Man please stop with all the Jesus loves everyone which is true but the Lord also talked about giving honor to who honor is due. ROMANS 13 talks us being subject to the laws of the land as Christians and one of the laws of the land is you can’t still someone else song and make it yours pperiod man even though we are Christians that doesn’t mean we don’t have rights question to all the people that they should let it go because they are a Christian now how many of you if someone break in your house and try to harm you or your family you still gone turn the other cheek and let them hurt you or are you going to DO LIKE THE LAW OF THE LAND SAY AND USE YOUR RIGHT TO PROTECT YOUR FAMILY????????? I thought so man people please read your bible and understand and stop being so gullible in that same chapter 13 of romans verses 1-3 says order and laws come from GOD so are they wrong for doing what they have every right to do. As Christians we have stand and protect our values and it can be done in a peaceful way just like they are doing katy Perry purposely did that it is a know fact she denouced her faith in Christ and to be honest she wasn’t a real Christian anyway because once you truly know Christ everything this world has is empty and don’t compare My brothers and sisters in Christ READ YOUR BIBLES SO YOU CAN KNOW AND UNDERSTAND JUST BECAUSE WE ARE CHRISTIANS THAT DONT MAKE US DOOR MATS I PRAY SHE ACCEPT THE LORD I ALSO PRAY THAT FLAME WINS HIS LAWSUIT
“It’s not biblical” well where in the bible does it say not to sue someone for stealing your original work. It might not be on purpose that the songs say the same but your reason are the worse I have read.”A money grab” do i even have to say anything about this one it’s a few christian guys who are already pretty famous and make a good living suing her not some lady spilling coffee on herself and getting burned then suing. Flame is not a hypocrite bruno mars and who ever are just to busy to sue them or he just doesn’t care to sue them or it’s a sue not in there favor. All the people I know who listen to lecrae are teenagers and adults I actually don’t know a single child under 13 who knows lecrae so stop giving us false facts because even ufc fighters listen to lecrae. How is it a embarrassment I would think it’s an embarrassment if we don’t do anything because then people can just copy our songs and we would be like be kind to them… well we can be kind to them actually an artical i read on lecrae and this lawsuit said that lecrae spoke about how he doesn’t hate Katty Perry or that she does witchcraft or any of that stuff he actually said he doesn’t even know how that got in or anything like that he just wants nobody to copy his own original awesome beats and his friends beats to. Thats all i have to say thnx for reading if you got this far and I’m leaving a fake name and email so don’t even try to contact me thankyou and if you read all of what he said sorry but that was wasted time go to better sites for better information.
“It’s not biblical” well where in the bible does it say not to sue someone for stealing your original work. It might not be on purpose that the songs say the same but your reason are the worse I have read.”A money grab” do i even have to say anything about this one it’s a few j christian guys who are already pretty famous and make a good living suing her not some lady spilling coffee on herself and getting burned then suing. Flame is not a hypocrite bruno mars and who ever are just to busy to sue them or he just doesn’t care to sue them or it’s a sue not in there favor. All the people I know who listen to lecrae are teenagers and adults I actually don’t know a single child under 13 who knows lecrae so stop giving us false facts because even ufc fighters listen to lecrae. How is it a embarrassment I would think it’s an embarrassment if we don’t do anything because then people can just copy our songs and we would be like be kind to them… well we can be kind to them actually an artical i read on lecrae and this lawsuit said that lecrae spoke about how he doesn’t hate Katty Perry or that she does witchcraft or any of that stuff he actually said he doesn’t even know how that got in or anything like that he just wants nobody to copy his own original awesome beats and his friends beats to. Thats all i have to say thnx for reading if you got this far and I’m leaving a fake name and email so don’t even try to contact me thankyou and if you read all of what he said sorry but that was wasted time go to better sites for better information.
I love christian rap and Im a firm believer and I do believe that the song could have been copied by katy Perry’s production team but I agree with this guy, it was stupid for them to suee over this. I get how yall wanna be suprotive of christian rap cause I am too, but Romans 12:18 says “if it is possible, as far as it depends on you live at peace with everyone.” Sueing someone is by no means living aat peace and it is almost hypocritical. I hope that this turns out alright and that Flame, Da truth, and Lecrea dont take flack for this. I love the song Joyful Noise and I see how theyre similar but it isnt worthh sueing over. Stop makeing all these hateful or “zealouse” comments please because your bwing hypocritical. Im not perfect but I know what God says and sueing someone or writing these crazy comments, I feel you but we shouldnt be so harsh. God said to Love our enemies/and everyone, most of these comments dont sound very loving
I don’t understand which direction this blog is going. Seems like it touches on everything…making the entire argument tasteless.
Care to elaborate? How does touching on all the issues make something tasteless?
Sir, first off i disagree with your argument with Person of interest. there is no similarity between the two cases. one is tv show with a premiss far beyond the video game, and while copying the plot and story line would be illegal, merely using the same concept is not.
second, i am an adult, who listens to both secular and christian rap. i prefer christian and even my dad who is in his sixties listens to it as well. the argument that most people who listen to christian rap come from controlling christian homes is kind of far fetched.
third, i refer to coldplays lawsuit on their song “viva la vida” by joe santiago. (I think thats his name) even the secular world condemns plagiarism. and we should as well, its wrong to steal another artists work and even though i think that a lawsuit might be a little extreme, there needs to be repurcussions for perry’s actions.
last, is you listen to the songs side by side at the same tempo, the beats are identical. Flame paid for this beat to be made, therefore it is his. the fact that she slowed it down makes no difference, its still the same beat flame paid for.
i hope you have taken the time to think these arguments through, and that you will reach a honest conclusion about your article. in no way do i mean to bash you for what you have said, i just wanted to bring up why i think that calling this lawsuit foolish might be wrong. God bless
Thank you Joshua! Finally someone who disagreed but did it lovingly, I agree with what your saying, im a 16 year old dyde who used to listen to secular rap till I decided to just listen to Christian. People who listen to christain rap at just little homeachool kids and no offense to homeschool kids I love you guys my cousins are homeschool and theyre awsome. I think that Flame has a legit case snd I see why he is doing it but I feel like theyre just going to get bashed for it. The secular media has a way of flipping things and causing us Christians to look bad. In all I hope thi all works out good. No hate towards any of you. Fight the good fight
Joshua and Sam,
thanks for your respectful comments! I appreciate your engagement on the matter.
You’re right… the part about kids not knowing who Katy Perry was, that was a bit of a stretch.
However… here’s my question to both of you… if the beat is so similar, why can’t you sing “Joyful Noise” on the Katy Perry song? There’s a SECTION of the song that is similar, but the totality of both songs contain plenty of other instrumentation that differ significantly.
I could see if all that the song consisted of was the section highlighted in the beat, but it’s not.
Ima be honest with you, I get what your saying. I personally dont think there’s enough similarity to actually say it was copy right. I also dont see why they would copy it? They have more money than they could ever need so they didnt do it for money. They are obviously the opposite of Christian so why would they be listening to it anyway? I could see maybe if they did it to dis the christian rap but i dont think it was. I wanna defend Christian rap because I seriously love it! Now it is very very similar and the first line lecrea says you know it is…. and so does jucy J. I mean I dont blame flame if I were him i would be think he stole it and like you said a lawyer might have motivated him to do it. So i dont know, if I were the judge I probably not side with Flame, but I mean I dont know. Dark horse sounds alot like joyful noise but I dont see why katy Perry’s producer would copy it?
Copyright infrinement happens all the time…look at the Lil Wayne song Mrs Officer…the guy they alegedly stole it from sued and collected owed money and royalties..DJ Unks song Walk it Out was a ripoff of a local Atlanta group called BHI..
Its called a sample…producers will take snippets of songs, loop it and chop it up rearrange it.speed it up, slow it down…but whatever they do to it, if they dont have clearance to do it then the producer or the artist (if they have exclusive rights to the track), can come back to collect any royalties due for using their music. Most east coat hip hop tracks are samples…Timaland uses samples for most of his tracks..listen to any song hes produced and you will hear a looped melody that never changes..he probably gets a lot of his loops/samples from overseas in countries that dont have the same protective laws that we have and is making millions. Thats how the music business works..
Everything you say here seems true according to my understanding of the music industry, but how can you prove that it’s actually a sample, as opposed to just a similarly sequenced musical phrase? Anyone with a modicum of musical talent and an understanding of keyboard workstations could produce a similar quarter-note melody with a synth lead and a basic 808 kick/clap rhythm.
Man please stop with all the Jesus loves everyone which is true but the Lord also talked about giving honor to who honor is due. ROMANS 13 talks us being subject to the laws of the land as Christians and one of the laws of the land is you can’t still someone else song and make it yours pperiod man even though we are Christians that doesn’t mean we don’t have rights question to all the people that they should let it go because they are a Christian now how many of you if someone break in your house and try to harm you or your family you still gone turn the other cheek and let them hurt you or are you going to DO LIKE THE LAW OF THE LAND SAY AND USE YOUR RIGHT TO PROTECT YOUR FAMILY????????? I thought so man people please read your bible and understand and stop being so gullible in that same chapter 13 of romans verses 1-3 says order and laws come from GOD so are they wrong for doing what they have every right to do. As Christians we have stand and protect our values and it can be done in a peaceful way just like they are doing katy Perry purposely did that it is a know fact she denouced her faith in Christ and to be honest she wasn’t a real Christian anyway because once you truly know Christ everything this world has is empty and don’t compare My brothers and sisters in Christ READ YOUR BIBLES SO YOU CAN KNOW AND UNDERSTAND JUST BECAUSE WE ARE CHRISTIANS THAT DONT MAKE US DOOR MATS I PRAY SHE ACCEPT THE LORD I ALSO PRAY THAT FLAME WINS HIS LAWSUIT
Hey Rodney,
I get what your saying but Romans 13 verses 1-3 talk about not resisting the authoritys but submitting to them. You gota look at the context, he then goes on to say we should pay taxes to who their due. Paul was talking about obey the laws of the gorvernment of course unless it goes against the Bible. I feelwhatyour saying but you didnt really hear what i was saying in the other comments. I said I dont blame flame for doing it, but why the heck would katy Perry wanna steal the beat? We dont have to agree wether its “Biblical” ot not because theres plent of verse we could use for both side. And I feel you saying read your Bible cause not many “Christians” do, but I do and I havent memorized it but I know it, so who are to tell me I dont know the Bible? Like if you think about it we’re supposed to be like Jesus was… so that would mean even if someone is wrongly accusing you, you to let them, ya feel me? Now if someone did that to me I wouldnt just let them but would Jesus be sueing someone for “stealing” something he wrote or said? And forget the whole Biblical arguement, WHY EOULD KATY PERRY’S PRODUCER STEAL THE SONG? How would he have even heard it considering how much satanic stuff is in the song?
Katty Perry was a Christian singer she started her career singing Christian music she then later said she sold her soul to the devil to be famous and make money .I think she liked the beat from Flames song and copied it in a slower tempo period.She is satanic and her video does have witchcraft and illuminati symbols if u can’t see that ur just a total ignorant.
I agree luisshe is defiantly satanic but even if she had hear or liked the beat of joyful noise she doesnt pick or produce the music, its the producer that makes a bunh of beats and the artists decide if they wanna use it, so the producer would have had to heard it and why would he have? He obviousky insint a christian if he produces for her so why would he have heard it?
Because regardless if a producer is Christian or not..music is music and most people who are into music like that knows a variety ornsongs, artists, ect…I personally have a producer friend whos a part or a production team -they arent Christian, but the track they produced for Lacrae got a Grammy off it. Again..music is music..and its also a business..you as the Christian consumer will never know what happens in the studio unless youre in that environment..Rodney Jerkins is a Christian producer but mainly works with secular artists…And also keep in mind many artists are hands on when it comes to their music..they can come with samples, or ideas and give it to the producer to build on from there.
What most people also aren’t realizing is that “Dark Horse” sampled a 1983 song by the group Art of Noise called “Moments in Time.” That’s where the beat was inspired from.
Also, Ginuwine had a similar beat in his “Pony” bass remix about a decade ago.
Katy Perry and her producers paid to sample. Perhaps Flame is the one who should be sued.
There is so much about your article that shows you really have not done your research. This is more of a rant of your opinions without considering the facts. Lecrae is not suing Paty Perry, check it out on Rapzilla.com “I believe that people should work things out between themselves” and “I love you Katy Petty” -Lecrae. He doesn’t want to be involved with this at all. He was featured on the song, so people are bringing his name into this.You say one song did not sample the other, but you are wrong, the song is a direct rip, with the tempo and pitch changed only. You said that Lecraes fans are not allowed to listen to the radio… I think that is less than a fraction of a percent as Lecrae is currently billboard #1 and that doesn’t happen from the home school crowd. Nice try on this article, but really you should be doing your research before putting something like this out there.
nuff said
lecrae stated from the beginning that he is not taking part in this lawsuit. I do believe the lawsuit is unnecessary even though the song does have specific similarities which I pointed out to my fiancé once I heard katy perry song dark horse
Katy Perry needs to be called out. first she makes jokes that she is not apart of the satanic cult, but then she turns around and tells a reporter because she didn’t make it as a christian artist she sold her soul to the devil. Look at the interview with Ruby Rose. They did this on purpose to make fun of Christian music, because they think we are dumb believers. I hope Flame wins and expose them all for their lies and deceit. I pray for her family and that God will answer their prayer about saving their daughter before the enemy takes her life in this state that she is in.
you sir have no education on music theory or copyright infringement
This article is a bunch of Jelani!! You are an embarrassment for writing this retarded article..I cant even begin to comment on the redic’ reasons you’ve listed..and I really like the part where you say their fans probably never even heard Katy’s song..laughable considering it was playing everytime I went into a gas station or grocery store.. look..Christian music or not an artist has a right to protect their music..business is business and as a Christian I would do the same..Jelani (this name fits you well)..please study up a little on the music industry..because Christian or not its still an industry..just because Im believe in God doesn’t mean I will sit back and let someone else walk all over me..I fully support Flame in this..Jelani..smh…Ima pray for you..lol Please dont write anything else like this…Please focus on subjects that count..that sre positive and will not bring division within the community…smh…
I am entertained by your interpretation of my name. What is it you think it means?
I know it means “mighty”…and this article was mighty retarded. Lol. I was joking on that point..but not on the fact that Flame suing KP is not an issue worth even writing on. Thats something that has no effect on any of us. If he wins…he rightfully gets paid..if she wins..then well..idk what happens..i dont get any of the cash and it wont hinder me in any area of my life….but my point here J. is that maybe we should bring up issues that are real and not a distraction from whats going on in our lives..like why so many people are geting sick from GMO foods..and why the companies that make thenfoid, big pharma and the government keep recycling and trading execs that keep laws in place that hinder us from knowing what were eating….or talk about why the US houses more non violent prisoners than any other country…why are there people waiting 1 – 5 years just to see a judge to get a hearing scheduled? Whats the link between banknof america, wells fargo and privately owned prisons…what about the fact that there a huge divide in Black families and the cycle thats continuing but its deeper God shaped void thats in our communities…what about the gentrification of cities…or if you want to talk about music, inform people of the meaning behind a lot of whats going on in the entertainment industry…What is Katy Perrys Dark Hirse really talking about?? There are soooooooooo amny more important issues that can be discussed and brought to light other than how embarassed you are over the suit…who cares?? Thats Flames fight not ours…now what needs to be addressed is what is our fight??
I like your enthusiasm, and I agree that this is not the most critical issue, though there are also plenty of other topics that I write about. I found it important to address at the time (check the dateline, this was written back in July) because I felt it was an important stumbling block for both believers and non-believers, and judging from the steady stream of comments many months later, it seems that I wasn’t wrong.
Nevertheless, journalism and editorials are not necessarily a zero-sum game. Talking or writing about this topic doesn’t prevent me (or others on this site) from writing about other important issues like police brutality or campaign finance reform.
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a correspondence more approximately your article on AOL?
I need an expert on this space tto solve my problem.
Maybe that’s you! Taking a look ahead to see you.
10 beats of of 10 says that they didn’t just decide to sue as soon as they heard the song. Just a guess here, but I’d bet everything I have that Flame/etc. gave this lawsuit a buttload of prayer, focus, and thought before they filed it. Most likely they spent more time deciding wheither to suw or not than you did writing this artical. (Or I did writing this comment). Also the “most fans are people in a conservative christian household” is an awful point. Firstly because, and neither of us know for sure, I highly doubt that. Their music is generally not accepted in super conservative households, and is ignored by those in not-so-conservative households. For some reason Christian teens in the latter generally prefer secular music, unfortunately. However, yes there are a great bunch of us in thenlatter who do like and listen to Lecrae/flame/etc. Secondly, please please please tell me you’ve listened to their music! The greater part of their ministry is working towards giving the word of God to those who don’t know. (Aka the people coming from the same background… The men and women born into broken families. People who are influenced by the sex, money, and drugs the world is throughing at them and saying “come get it for your pleasure!”) The point henceforth is, assumptions are terrible arguments if your trying to prove something in a well-written artical, and the people involved in this lawsuit gave it a buttload more thought and prayer than you did on this artical! (P.S. No offense to that last part, but you’ve made some clear weak points in your artical… It was well-written but poorly worked on….. Please, as the profesional behind this artical, bring some research and evidence and set it before us, not just make your points, throw a few fingerprints on the table, and leave. I know I also made a few assumptions, but hey, this is just a reply to inform you where there may be mistakes. You’re the one writing the artical, you oughta be checking out and doing research on what these replies are saying…. And than editing your artical if you can, or just simply setting a date to re-write it and taking it down, then posting it back up with the proper revisions. Thanks for reading, God Bless)
1. It’s not that difficult to explain that Katy Perry is a bad secular artist.
2. Uncanny resemblances happen all the time, purely coincidentally. But obvious rips, when one can barely tell the difference between the two songs, are a different issue.
3. When Jesus said to love our enemies, He didn’t mean we should never let justice be done.
4. No; it looks like justice–just like anyone would do.