GAY UNION: Reginald Stanley and Rocky Galloway became the first homosexual couple to legally wed in Washington, D.C. in March 2010. (Newscom Photo)
“Lord, we’re definitely living in the end times.”
“It’s about Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.”
I heard these complaints from callers to a Christian radio talk show in Virginia alarmed by New York’s June 24 vote legalizing gay marriage. Similar cries are being voiced across the country among Christians who apparently believe homosexuality is THE unpardonable sin and biggest threat to marriage. America is headed for hell, they say.
But government legalization of gay marriage may be a blessing in disguise that the church in America needs today. Gay marriage isn’t what Christians should worry about. Conformity is the bigger threat.
Romans 12:2 warns:
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is — his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Separation of church and state is not just a philosophy concerning the relationships between governments and organized religious institutions. It’s ultimately about the church (people) being the moral conscience that influences the nation (society), as the Founders intended. When people of faith become too close and comfy with society’s secular standards, we get negatively influenced. This is evident in the case of marriage and divorce rates.
The accuracy of divorce rates has been questioned because of difficulties obtaining clear data, but according the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the national divorce rate is about 34 percent. According to a study by the Barna Group, the Christian divorce rate is 32 percent. A U.S. Census study released in August indicates that southeastern states have the highest divorce levels. Explanations are that people there tend to marry younger, have less education and lower incomes compared to, for example, their northeastern counterparts whose average divorce rates are the lowest. With the Bible Belt leading the way in divorce, and the national Christian rate mirroring the nation, we’re certainly not the “salt of the Earth” God intended when it comes to marriage.
Not only lay people, but many of Christianity’s most well-known figures are divorcees, even multiple divorcees. Their scandals read like the pop culture celebrity breakups blogsites. How can Christians claim to believe that marriage represents Jesus Christ’s love and eternal bond with the church and is between a man and woman only, yet have equally high divorce rates? How is it that the LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered) community that many Christians say is headed for the same fate as Sodom and Gomorrah is a stronger advocate for committed marriages?
Could it be that Christians have “conformed” as the Scripture warns?
America’s Founding Fathers wisely established the separation of church and state in the U.S. Constitution because they understood the disastrous results the church/state union had in Europe. The bond has been a bad dealfor the church for centuries since Emperor Constantine I wedded the Roman Empire to the Catholic Church in A.D. 313 for strategic benefit. Christianity grew and spread, but at the cost of much horrific state-motivated sins, such as the Crusades, colonialism, and slavery, that were sanctioned by the church. Christianity’s moral stature suffered.
Secular and spiritual motives on marriage have often clashed. The marriage debate was at the heart of Protestants splintering from Catholics as King Henry VIII established the Church of England because the Pope refused to annul his marriage. The king wanted to wed a different woman who could bare him an heir to the throne.
If we believe marriage is under God’s higher authority, why would we need the government to change the Constitution to define marriage to our liking? Our greater concern should be that the government never infringe on church freedoms, including whom individual churches choose to marry. Instead of petitioning the government to adopt a definition that not even all Christian agree on (there are also LGBT Christians), show by example why marriage between a man and woman works best. Be the conscience of society by significantly reducing the Christian divorce rate. Otherwise, we’re just hypocrites who have conformed to the world.
I’ve been married once, for nearly 20 years to the same woman. We’ve successfully reared three children into adulthood. It has been wonderful and challenging; my shortcomings and stubbornness over the years haven’t helped. Marriage is not easy and there are situations where couples are better off parting ways. I realized this at age 12, watching inside the courtroom as my parents split.
Still, as Christians our best witness to society on marriage is to put our energy into making our marriages work, not speculating about the end times, or pressing to block two consenting adult citizens from pursuing their equal rights to privacy and happiness under the government’s laws as guaranteed by our Constitution.
In the end, only God’s judgment of all of us — straight or gay — matters.
The opinions expressed in this commentary belong to the writer and are not necessarily the views of UrbanFaith.com or Urban Ministries, Inc.
In my world it’s about Adam and Steve….soo sorry, Eve, we don’t want you.
Very intresting perspective on gay marriages and christian hypocrisy. It is a very different way to look at it and this article should really hit mainstream christian media, not as a way to chastise or advocate gays or gay marriages but as a way to turn the mirror back on them so they can see the hand they play in people not living an upright and wholesome christian life
While I agree that the Church’s conformity to the world is definitely a problem, I do not agree that Gay marriage should not be a concern for the Church as well. I pulled out a few quotes from this article with my comments.
It’s ultimately about the church (people) being the moral conscience that influences the nation (society), as the Founders intended.
-How exactly do you see this as being done? The church just living a certain way and the world following. That’s a naive approach. The world is not looking to the Church for its guidance. I believe the Founders expected people to bring their Christian values with them to influence those in power to create legislation that aligned with Christian beliefs.
Not only lay people, but many of Christianity’s most well-known figures are divorcees, even multiple divorcees. Their scandals read like the pop culture celebrity breakups blogsites. How can Christians claim to believe that marriage represents Jesus Christ’s love and eternal bond with the church and is between a man and woman only, yet have equally high divorce rates?
-I agree with this assessment wholeheartedly.
If we believe marriage is under God’s higher authority, why would we need the government to change the Constitution to define marriage to our liking?
-It is not simply according to our liking but to God’s. We are not only to live as Christ says but champion these ways as well (Jude 3).
How is it that the LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered) community that many Christians say is headed for the same fate as Sodom and Gomorrah is a stronger advocate for committed marriages?
-This is an untrue statement. The number of male homosexuals that have sex out of their “bonds” is 59%. For straight men the number is 10%. This study did not question religious beliefs.
Instead of petitioning the government to adopt a definition that not even all Christian agree on (there are also LGBT Christians),
– Whether so-called “Christians” do not believe what the Bible has to say about homosexuality, should not stop those who are truly Christians from contending for the truth. “LGBT” Christians is a contradiction of terms. We would not say a person is a Christian thief, a God-fearing liar, Christ-centered blasphemer, etc.
Finally, I’d like to say our best witness to society should not even be based on marriage, but on the heart transforming work of Jesus Christ in the message of the Gospel. Only through this will we see true change in society and our culture.
Thank you for a rational and reasonable piece on equal marriage rights. The fact that all these bans and laws interfere with the rights of a growing number of Churches and ministers that do want to be able to marry gay people is seldom brought up. Religious Freedom is supposed to be freedom for ALL religions, not just the religions which are the most traditional, popular or powerful.
It is also important that the debate about the civil rights of gay people be conducted honestly. Too often it is not. Thank you for advocating for more clarity and directness. And for talking about the facts.
“The number of male homosexuals that have sex out of their “bonds” is 59%.”
Well, what do you expect when you have a society that stigmatizes homosexuality and discourages openness and monogamous commitment between members of same-sex couples? When you have a society that forces most gay men to live double-lives in secret under the threat of severe harassment, violence, and possible termination in the workplace, can you really expect any sense of permanency in their relationships?
Look at how blacks fare in comparison to whites. Over 50% of black babies are born to fatherless homes with their parents out of wedlock. Almost triple the rate of whites. But, when you look at how black male-female gender relations were systematically sabtoged through the institutions of racism and slavery, a lot is revealed. It’s not that black people have something inherently wrong with them (as seems to be your implication about gay men). It’s that out society creates conditions that discourage successful black relationships and stable black families.
I was not making any implications as to why this occurs, but simply to state the comment I quoted from the authors piece was incorrect. Furthermore, my last statement of the heart-transforming power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ can/will bring forth change in all areas mentioned as well as homosexuality.
We need to get the word out to religious communities that anti-gay people are twisting God’s words to condone their hate.
Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, Greek temple sex worship, prostitution, pederasty with teen boys, and rape, not homosexuality or two loving consenting adults.
(Change *** to www)
***.gaychristian101.com/
***.mccchurch.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Resources&Template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=2121
***.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence.html
***.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian
***.goodhopemcc.org/spirituality/sexuality-and-bible/homosexuality-not-a-sin-not-a-sickness.html
“‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.Lev. 18:22
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders I Cor. 6:9
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Rom 1:26,27
The verses are quite clear and the websites you mention all seem to present a similar agenda.
Let me copy/paste and examine why you are wrong on all 3 of those verses.
Leviticus is constantly taken out of context. These two lines do not condemn homosexuals when you examine Leviticus as a whole and relate the historical times.
Leviticus 18:22:
“You shall not lie with a male as those who lie with a female; it is an abomination.”
Leviticus 20:13:
“If a man lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination and they shall surely be put to death.”
Both of these verses refer to heterosexuals who participated in fertility rituals in order to guarantee good crops and healthy flocks, not homosexuals, there is absolutely no mention of sexual orientation or homosexuality. Also, the word abomination was used for anything that was considered to be religiously unclean or dealing with any type idol worship.
The Hebrew word “toevah” was used in Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13. “Toevah” has been translated in our Bibles as “abomination” or “detestable”. The “toevah” was used throughout the Old Testament for activity involving ethnic contamination and religious idolatry. “Toevah” refers to things that were ritually unclean – like eating pork.
It is significant that another Hebrew word, “zimah,” also translated “abomination,” which means intrinsic evil or evil by its very nature, was not used in Leviticus 18:22, or Leviticus 20:13.
It is also significant that female homosexual relationships are not mentioned in the old testament. That’s because they aren’t talking about sexual orientation, they are talking about idolatrous practices.
Just maybe…people in those days would never dream of homosexuality being even remotely considered *outside* of a pagan ritual?
Now onto Romans:
Homosexuality is not a sin.
If taken out of context, this passage seems to condemn homosexuals. However, when Romans 1:26-27 is considered within the context of Romans 1:16 through Romans 2:16, the Scriptures clearly present a different teaching.
Paul was writing to the church in Rome. The Roman church had become troubled by divisions related to spiritual pride. Paul was addressing the Christians in Rome and teaching about the pagans in Rome. After declaring the power of Christ’s gospel to save all, he pointed out that the religious people of Rome had refused to even acknowledge GOD as one of their many gods. They had turned their backs on the one true living God and worshiped handmade idols. Paul explained that as a result of their idolatry, every part of their lives had become corrupt and vile.
Paul then told the Roman Christians that they were not to judge others. To judge others is to condemn yourself (Romans 2:1). Christians are to love others out of their brokenness and into the healing wholeness that is found in Jesus Christ.
The Greek word Paul used, that has been translated in our Bibles as “natural/unnatural”, relates to that which is against one’s own inherent nature (i.e., heterosexuals engaging in homosexual acts). It was also related to Paul’s concept of what was culturally acceptable. The same Greek word is used in I Cor. 11:14-15 in reference to correct hair length for men and women and in Gal. 2:15 in reference to Jews and Gentiles who were such by “nature.” Paul emphasized that IDOLATRY (not homosexuality) was the evil which resulted in temple prostitution, sadomasochism, and lack of regard for others.
It would help if you knew what the culture was like back then. In those times, male-male intercourse was a result of idol worship. Back then, it was a common practice of cult priests and priestesses to submit to sexual acts with either gender as part of the worship of their deities. Therefore, such acts were considered sinful and debauchery. It would be the same if it were hetero people involved in cultic sex, prostitution or sexual abuse of minors.
Now I’m pretty sure that two guys engaging in sex these days are NOT idol worshipers. In fact, 99% of the time, it is a physical act of love; just like any hetero couples.
And finally onto corinthians:
Homosexuality is not a sin.
Corinthians 6:9-11
Let us examine that very closely.
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.
First of all, before we address this line, let us consider one thing. Supposedly taken from a 2000+ year old book, understand that the word “homosexual” was not coined until 1869 by Austrian-born novelist Karl-Maria Kertbeny. So how it happens to be included in a true reading of the particular biblical passage should make you ponder how accurate the interpretation actually is. So man changing the words of the Bible to conveniently spread hate? I think so.
Now onto the interpretation, i’ve included the original Greek words as well where it’s relevant.
Paul was attempting to educate the new Christians in Corinth as to what Godly living was all about. In verses 9-10, he listed ways of living that were not compatible with a Christ-centered life. In verse 11, Paul reminded them that they had been saved out of those destructive ways. There are two Greek words in I Corinthians 6:9, which sometimes are translated with a homosexual connotation.
First word, “malakoi” or “malakos” – it literally means soft or mushy; it can mean spineless, wishy-washy or without backbone. “Malakoi” was used four other times in the New Testament and it always meant “soft.” The context of I Corinthians seems to imply a moral softness or decadence, a failure to stand up for what is right and godly. It is significant that for several hundred years there was no sexual connotation assigned to this word.
Second word, “arsenokoitai” or “arsenokoites” – it literally means, “males having sex.” Early commentaries on I Corinthians related “arsenokoitai” to male temple prostitutes and to men having sex with boys. (Idolatrous prostitution and pedophilia are always wrong for those seeking to honor God.)
Homosexual relationships were known in the Greco-Roman culture of Paul’s day. The Greek word commonly used in reference to adult male same sex partners was “arrenokoites.” Paul did not use this word. Instead, he created his own, “arsenokoitai.” If Paul had intended to condemn all adult male same sex partners, he would have used the common word for it.
You got any other verses i can prove wrong?
Oh yeah, also, since you cited leviticus, i have 10 questions i want to ask you:
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness – Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination – Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than murder. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? – Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you don’t choose the color of your skin, you cannot choose whom you are sexually attracted to. Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Most gay people will tell you its not a choice. Common sense will tell you its not a choice. While science is relatively new to studying homosexuality, studies tend to indicate that its biological.
(Change *** to www)
***-news.uchicago.edu/releases/03/differential-brain-activation.pdf
***.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html
Gay, Straight Men’s Brain Responses Differ
***.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155990,00.html
***.livescience.com/health/060224_gay_genes.html
***.springerlink.com/content/w27453600k586276/
There is overwhelming scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice. Sexual orientation is generally a biological trait that is determined pre-natally, although there is no one certain thing that explains all of the cases. “Nurture” may have some effect, but for the most part it is biological.
This is the perfect example of how anti-gay people change the bible’s words for their anti-gay agenda.
Corinthians 6:9-11
Let us examine that very closely.
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.
First of all, before we address this line, let us consider one thing. Supposedly taken from a 2000+ year old book, understand that the word “homosexual” was not coined until 1869 by Austrian-born novelist Karl-Maria Kertbeny. So how it happens to be included in a true reading of the particular biblical passage should make you ponder how accurate the interpretation actually is. So man changing the words of the Bible to conveniently spread hate?
Absolutely.
If a man does try to change what the Bible says about sin to hate, then that person is not a true believer. The Bible teaches us to love all people, some people take that part to cancel out what the Bible speaks of sin. This is false. In our love of Christ and sinners of all kinds, we are to tell them the truth of scripture, the Gospel and pray for repentance.
The true sin is to deny two selfless people the right to love another without the interfence of other people’s self-righteous moralizing, judgement and indignation.
And this also proves that people are using the Bible for their anti-gay agenda, putting words in God’s mouth that are not there.
The National Library of Medicine pubs confirm that sexual orientation is natural, biologically induced in the first trimester of pregnancy, morally neutral, immutable, neither contagious nor learned, bearing no relation to an individuals ability to form deep and lasting relationships, to parent children, to work or to contribute to society.
From the American Psychological Association: homosexuality is normal; homosexual relationships are normal.
The American Academy of Pediatrics, American Psychological Association and American Psychiatric Association have endorsed civil marriage for same-sex couples because marriage strengthens mental and physical health and longevity of couples, and provides greater legal and financial security for children, parents and seniors.
America’s premier child/mental health associations endorse marriage equality.
Well, I must say that the Bible and Jesus is higher authority than any organization you may mention. Col. 1:15-18
The Bible is a higher authority than science on whether the world is round, too? You know, people have been imprisoned, hung and burned alive for thinking that the world was round in spite of how the Bible presents it.
Nowhere in scripture does it day that…
*say
What exactly is meant by “four corners of the earth” and “ends of the earth”?
Isaiah 11:12
“And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.”
Revelation 7:1
“And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.”
Job 38:13
“That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?”
The Bible relfects pre-scientific thinking. Not really that surprising, considering that it’s over 6,000 years old.
Astronomical bodies are now known to be spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.
1) I already proved that homosexuality is not a sin in my post above
2) I rather trust facts than faith. Facts are proven. Faith is not.
This was taken from another poster that shows why we need to legalize gay marriage. If you don’t feel for this person after reading it, you simply aren’t human.
“I am not sure what our President thinks of this dicission but coming from a poor family and knowing what discrimination is all about I would assume he would not care if “Gays” have equal rights. The whole reason why they are asking for rights to be considered married is from the same reason why I would be for it. My own life partner commited suicide in our home with a gun to his heart. After a 28 year union I was deprived to even go his funeral. We had two plots next to each other. But because we did not have a marriage cirtificate “(Legal Document)” of our union his mother had him cremated and his ashes taken back to Missouri where we came from. That is only one example how painful it is. His suicide tramatized me so much and her disregard for my feelings only added to my heartach. That happened on March 21 of 2007 and I still cannot type this without crying for the trauma I have to endure each day. Oh did I mention I am in an electric wheelchair for life? Yes I am and it is very diffacult to find another mate when you are 58 and in a wheelchair. “
I’m sorry but that proved nothing. While no one should find pleasure in the pain I am sure he feels, it is purely anecdotal and is a proof of nothing.
It is proof of how cruel and heartless homophobes can be and how if he only had a female partner that he could be legally married to, such would be an outrage and grounds for a lawsuit. But, merely because he shares the same genitals as his partner, our society deems their relationship as worthless and he is able to have his heart stomped all over by prejudiced relatives of his partner.
If his partner was female and of a different race, his story would probably bring national media attention. But, no one cares what happens to the gays, who are dehumanized and denigrated everyday, because people somehow feel that their love of each other is not real or legitimate.
I agree with you that homosexuals are often treated cruelly and that if anyone does those under the hospices of Christianity they are wrong and in fact sinning themselves. Jesus Christ took on the wrath of God for all sin (including homosexuality), and if we would repent, turn from our sins, turn to Christ and put our trust in Him we would be born again.
Take the mote out of thine own eye first.
I already proved that homosexuality is not a sin =) Done by biblical scholars and historians.
I understand the point that Mr. LaVeist is trying to make. As Christians, we should spend more time trying to make our marriages work. This is true. That still doesn’t take away from the point that homosexuality is a sin according to the scriptures and as believers and citizens of this nation, we should ensure our voice is heard concerning homosexual marriage.
Reading the other posts, it essentially comes down to this: Either you believe the Scripture is the word of the Living God or you don’t. If you do, you’ll take very seriously the Scripture’s warnings concerning homosexuality as you should every sin. If you don’t, you won’t! Depending on your stance, does this make any of us perfect? No. We are made perfect through faith in Christ and the work of the Holy Spirit. But we need to be very careful calling good evil and evil good! (See Isaiah 5:20)
“Either you believe the Scripture is the word of the Living God or you don’t.”
But who says all Scripture is the word of God? The Bible says that (1) Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:14) and (2) The Word of God is etched on our hearts (Hebrews 10:16). The Bible is but a collection of parables, stories, and laws. It is the word of man *inspired* by God. Man is flawed and this the Bible itself would also be flawed, even though it credits itself in scripture as inerrant. An all-powerful God is not limited the confines of a book. To say so is blasphemy. It is to make the same mistake as the Pharisees.
I think you missed my post that proves homosexuality is not a sin 🙂
We need to get the word out to religious communities that anti-gay people are twisting God’s words to condone their hate.
Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, Greek temple sex worship, prostitution, pederasty with teen boys, and rape, not homosexuality or two loving consenting adults.
(Change *** to www)
***.gaychristian101.com/
***.mccchurch.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Resources&Template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=2121
***.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence.html
***.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian
Number One, Jesus is referred to as “the Word of God” because He is the Divine Expression of the Father. Number Two, the Scripture is referred to as the “word of God” because “all scripture is given by inspiration of God” meaning it is “God-breathed” (see II Timothy 3:16). This means that the Spirit of God moved upon holy men of God which produced the scriptures we now have. You are right when you say men are flawed, but God is not. You say God is all-powerful. If He is (and I believe He is), then He is able to move upon men to write the Holy Scriptures and the scriptures be free from flaws! You are right to say God is not limited to the confines of a book. That does not mean He could not convey to us His heart , mind, and will. This has nothing to do with blasphemy.
Again, as I said earlier, you either believe the Scriptures is the word of the Living God or you don’t!
So you are saying that if I go out and re-publish a version of the Bible in English, like so many have done repeatedly thousands of times, that automatically will make it error-free, regardless of what I put in it?
Is Saint Augustine’s exegesis of the 2nd and 3rd chapters of Genesis correct? Do a search: First Scandal.
What exactly is meant by “four corners of the earth” and “ends of the earth”?
These are phrases that mean “The furthest reaches of the land.”
Take the mote out of thine own eye first.
@Greling did I condemn anyone? I believe that I used “we” when referring to repentance and needing our sins forgiven.
You verbally treated gays in an attitude and manner that the Pharisees treated a certain prostitute. You convicted them with a broad brushstroke as all being one and the same without even knowing all of them.
Isaiah 40:22 btw makes the claim of a round earth b4 scientists discovered this themselves.
This is clear proof of the contradictions in the bible, which is further evidence it was edited by man:
But the land covers the entire globe. It’s only part of the land that we see atop of water and even that stretches to the point where it’s on every rotated side of the sphere visible from outer space.
@Shadow Man: You have proven nothing. Just that there are “Biblical scholars” out there who disagree with other “biblical scholars.”
On a naturalistic level, If men were naturally meant to share their bodies sexually, they would have been equipped anatomically for it. WIthout getting overly graphic, male sexual encounters are physically dangerous and cause autoimmune deficiencies…and I’m not speaking of AIDS.
The misuse of equipment meant for another design is a “sin.”
Lol! And where is the backup of these “claims” Also, AIDS is primarily a heterosexual disease most widespread in africa =)
And also i’ve seen both sides. Here is what we can logically conclude:
-One side (the anti-gay side) cherry-picks lines, takes them out of context, and just says it’s wrong with no evidence.
They even added the word “homosexual,” a word that wasn’t even used this way till the 1800’s.
-The other side (pro-gay side) actually looks at and relates the historical times, provides plenty of evidence using the Bible itself, looks at the Bible as a whole, relates the context to other lines and passages, interprets them properly, doesn’t distort their meaning, translates the Greek words properly and sees how they are used in various locations of the Bible to get a clear definition, and provides sufficient evidence.
It’s easy to see why the latter wins out.
What the heck are you talking about?
Oh, and the argument from design works both ways. If God gave us genitals, then he clearly didn’t intend for celibacy. And why does a man have his prostate (more sexually sensetive than the penis), located in a position that only a object the length of a penis can stimulate it? Why is it designed in such a way that it can even be stimulated to begin with anyway?
And further, just because something has a primarly purpose or common purpose, doesn’t mean that that purpose is exclusionary. Just because your mouth is designed with eating and talking in mind, doesn’t mean that it’s sinful to sing, whistle, or chew gum. Just because breasts are primarily intended to give infants mik doesn’t mean that they cannot give certain persons enjoyment outside of that.
The direction this thread has taken is further proof of my point. We tend to focus on the wrong things (the low hanging fruit) because it’s easier to debate than to address the deeper problems in our minds, our homes, our communities… My guiding principles on this issue simply this:
– I believe God intended marriage for a man and woman.
– I respect those who disagree with me whether they be straight or LGBT because they are part of God’s human family. Only God decides who is in and who is out of the family.
– It’s discriminatory for the government to block some citizens from, for example, receiving health benefits or from being able to make life and death medical decisions for their loved one because of their sexual orientation. I understand the complexities and history of the matter, but it’s very hard to get around that central Constitutional point.
– We live in a country where the government is supposed to guarantee freedom, justice and equality for ALL of its law abiding, taxpaying citizens. If the nation allows citizens to divorce (which God definitely has a clear problem with ex: Mathew 19:18-19) then why shouldn’t we allow same-sex marriage too? Why aren’t we as Christians fighting as vigorously against divorce? Isn’t that a sin too?
– The government SHOULD allow divorce because not all of its citizens agree or adhere to the bible or Christianity. Besides, you can’t legislate against every sin, especially in a society where the church and state are (thank God) separate.
– Time and time again we see those who obsess against homosexuals often get “outed” for repressing their homosexuality. Some of Christianity’s most prominent pastors or on this list.
– I can’t for the life of me figure why someone would be so focused on how 2 OTHER consenting adults decide to love each other, and care for each other, knowing that ultimately God alone will judge all of us. I’d rather spend my energy and focus on trying to keep my own marriage going and perhaps positively influencing others through my witness.
– God called us as Christians to love Him, our neighbors and to look out for widows, orphans (basically serve less fortunate and those in need). When you hear of teens committing suicide because they’re struggling with their sexuality, that ought to bother you as a Christian.
– We can change society by being known as people who stand for the Word of God, and who love instead of judge. Let’s show and prove that what we say we believe is correct by how we live according to the Word and can be honest when we fall short.
Matt 5:13,15:
You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
“You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.
Mr. LaVeist,
I respect your take on this and agree with most of it. The only problem I have with it is you expect believers to be silent on issues that need to be spoken about. Especially when these things are being foisted on us. Part of being the salt of the earth and the light of the world is addressing issues that effect the world we live in. This is especially true for the preachers and pastors of the land. The fact that we are finding out about prominent preachers who are falling into this sin doesn’t somehow excuse it. It just means those preachers need repentance and the grace of God just like everyone else. All of us are imperfect. The Apostle Paul pointed this out himself and he said he was one of the chief sinners before Christ changed him. It didn’t prevent him from pointing out sin and requiring believers to walk holy before God.
I believe the real problem is that the line has become very blurred between the Kingdom of God and the world. The questions you ask about the role of government reveal this. Homosexuality, like abortion, has become a political issue when it is a moral and spiritual one. What’s causing many believers to speak out against this lifestyle is the fact that many in the church are making this lifestyle more acceptable to those in the church. Also, forces outside the church are trying to make us within the church accept this lifestyle, as revealed by the fact that if we don’t, we are called “HATERS”!. When homosexuality was a “hidden” issue, not many people were talking about it. We are speaking to it now because it has to be addressed. I will admit that there are those who haven’t done a very good job of it but that doesn’t negate the fact that Scripture reveals that homosexaulity is a sin before God. In proclaiming the Gospel, which is the church’s first task, we call sinners to repentance. In that proclamation, sin has to be addressed. Adultery, theivery, covetousness, hatred, etc. along with homosexuality has to be called out or else what am I repenting of? Being a light, being salt, feeding the poor, showing the love of God to all (heterosexual and homosexual) are all part of the lifestyle of a believer. So is holding each other accountable to live a lifestyle pleasing to God.
Edward:
You wrote: “…you expect believers to be silent on issues that need to be spoken about.”
I appreciate your point of view, but I actually never wrote that we should be silent. On the contrary, I’m saying we should not be hypocritical, which i believe is a sign of conforming. Our actions show that on average Christians have “conformed” (become silent maybe?) to divorce as divorce has become more acceptable in society over the years. It has become more acceptable partly because on average, we Christian haven’t shown that we value marriage as we claim. Meanwhile, divorce (which the scripture I referenced above clearly shows God’s position) has proven to be extremely damaging to the family, yet we “choose” to obsess over homosexuality and same-sex marriage instead. Why? Isn’t divorce also a sin?
We tend to be silent on divorce because many of us have already done it or been exposed as children. It’s easier and makes us feel better to point at the LGBT and say, “They’re worse than me.” But does God see it that way? Do we really believe that God sees the divorcee as being less sinful than the adulterer or fornicator, who is less sinful than the homosexual? Or is God big enough to handle all of us as he sees fit?
Some of us “obsess” over homosexuality to “repress” while others do it for political expediency. Others, still, are honestly wrestling with this and seeking God’s will. Meanwhile, from the point of view of non believers in society (the people we are called to reach out to and make disciples), many Christians now appear to be in favor of the government denying liberties to a group of its citizens. That’s a dangerous place for the church to be with potentially far reaching, precedent setting implications that could backfire (another commentary for another day).
When it comes to dealing with our government, we should be on the side of liberty and choice to protect the church and for the sake of other Americans whether they are Christian or not. This will sometimes mean the availability of choices (like divorce) that we don’t like, for as I wrote in the above commentary, there are situations where divorcing is best for the adults and or the children involved. Our role as Christians is to show society that there is great happiness in living freely while not indulging our sinful natures (Galatians 5:13).
We all should seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit and discern for ourselves what is the right path on this. I believe we’re called to speak out in love with our words and actions. Our actions should be the confirming witness to others. This is something I try to work out daily in my personal walk. Of course I slip and even fall along the way, which is why I need God.
“Homosexuality, like abortion, has become a political issue when it is a moral and spiritual one.”
If I am right, conservative Christians in American used to interpret the bibilcal edicts “Be not of this world” and “Render on to Cesar that which is his” to mean that they should not ge involved into politics. All of this changed with they realized how much more money they could make stirring up emotions against abortion, Communists, integration and gays than they could doing tent revivals.
“The only problem I have with it is you expect believers to be silent on issues that need to be spoken about. ”
Bobby Griffith’s mother was anything but silent. When she found out her son was “a homosexal” (gasp), she called him out on it, tried to cast the devil out of him and get him to pray the gay way. The results were tragic indeed:
http://www.pflagdc.org/education/griffith.php
They wrote a book and made a movie about his story to prevent further tragedies like this from occuring in other loving Christian homes. Watch here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZT9b9xp2DU
Mr. LaVeist,
I want to apologize for mis-interpreting what you said. I do agree, as believers, we do tend to focus on some sins while excusing others. I would call that human nature. I do think there is a reason why homosexuality gets so much focus from many believers. Homosexuality is viewed by many as the final straw before the judgment of God comes on a society. There is biblical grounds for this belief when you examine Genesis 18 and 19 as well as Romans 1. I do agree with you though concerning the hypocrisy of the church. We need to be consistent in our opposition to all sin especially in the church. The scriptures tell us that judgment begins at the house of God! (I Peter 4:17)
Copy/pasta to prove homosexuality is not a sin.
Genesis was talking about heterosexual couples in those verses, which implys nothing about homosexual couples.
As for Romans:
If taken out of context, this passage seems to condemn homosexuals. However, when Romans 1:26-27 is considered within the context of Romans 1:16 through Romans 2:16, the Scriptures clearly present a different teaching.
Paul was writing to the church in Rome. The Roman church had become troubled by divisions related to spiritual pride. Paul was addressing the Christians in Rome and teaching about the pagans in Rome. After declaring the power of Christ’s gospel to save all, he pointed out that the religious people of Rome had refused to even acknowledge GOD as one of their many gods. They had turned their backs on the one true living God and worshiped handmade idols. Paul explained that as a result of their idolatry, every part of their lives had become corrupt and vile.
Paul then told the Roman Christians that they were not to judge others. To judge others is to condemn yourself (Romans 2:1). Christians are to love others out of their brokenness and into the healing wholeness that is found in Jesus Christ.
The Greek word Paul used, that has been translated in our Bibles as “natural/unnatural”, relates to that which is against one’s own inherent nature (i.e., heterosexuals engaging in homosexual acts). It was also related to Paul’s concept of what was culturally acceptable. The same Greek word is used in I Cor. 11:14-15 in reference to correct hair length for men and women and in Gal. 2:15 in reference to Jews and Gentiles who were such by “nature.” Paul emphasized that IDOLATRY (not homosexuality) was the evil which resulted in temple prostitution, sadomasochism, and lack of regard for others.
It would help if you knew what the culture was like back then. In those times, male-male intercourse was a result of idol worship. Back then, it was a common practice of cult priests and priestesses to submit to sexual acts with either gender as part of the worship of their deities. Therefore, such acts were considered sinful and debauchery. It would be the same if it were hetero people involved in cultic sex, prostitution or sexual abuse of minors.
Now I’m pretty sure that two guys engaging in sex these days are NOT idol worshipers. In fact, 99% of the time, it is a physical act of love; just like any hetero couples.
Sodom was destroyed because of greed, disregard for those in need and crass inhospitality to visitors. The story never mentions homosexuality at all. That is a clear case of reading into the story a bit too much.
We need to get the word out to religious communities that anti-gay people are twisting God’s words to condone their hate.
Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, Greek temple sex worship, prostitution, pederasty with teen boys, and rape, not homosexuality or two loving consenting adults.
(Change *** to www)
***.gaychristian101.com/
***.mccchurch.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Resources&Template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=2121
***.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence.html
***.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian
II understand your point, but I find it interesting that homosexuality is only mentioned in the context of pagan worship–period. There is no other “context” in which to find such acts. You’d think that if it was so acceptable back then that with so many Scriptures –even apocryphal scriptures–even completely other religions…somewhere there’d be reference to this being just a part of “normal” life. But it is not. What is the claim? 10% of society is homosexual? So at least 10% of the Bibilcal characters should have been blatantly, unabashedly portrayed in Scripture as homosexual…it’s dead silent. Which speaks volumes.
And the Roman practice of man/boy love you mention elsewhere was pretty much a practice of subjugation of slaves…it was by no means a tender, loving act between to consenting adults. If the boy didn’t submit, he was killed and another was brought to carry the arms and please his master. I wouldn’t call that consensual under those circumstances.
You just repeated what i wrote. Also, there were gay couples mentioned in the bible.
In fact, the Bible has gay couples in a positive light as noted in Ruth 1:16-17; Daniel 1:9; 1 Samuel 20: 41-42; and 2 Samuel 1:26. David and Jonathan’s relationship parallels that of Gilgamesh and Enkidu, a gay couple in an ancient Sumerian epic. Their relationship fits the model of military lovers, common throughout the societies of the ancient Middle East. These male-male sexual relationships were taken for granted, and they would not have had to be explicitly referenced.
The National Library of Medicine pubs confirm that sexual orientation is natural, biologically induced in the first trimester of pregnancy, morally neutral, immutable, neither contagious nor learned, bearing no relation to an individuals ability to form deep and lasting relationships, to parent children, to work or to contribute to society.
From the American Psychological Association: homosexuality is normal; homosexual relationships are normal.
The American Academy of Pediatrics, American Psychological Association and American Psychiatric Association have endorsed civil marriage for same-sex couples because marriage strengthens mental and physical health and longevity of couples, and provides greater legal and financial security for children, parents and seniors.
America’s premier child/mental health associations endorse marriage equality.
Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you don’t choose the color of your skin, you cannot choose whom you are sexually attracted to. Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Most gay people will tell you its not a choice. Common sense will tell you its not a choice. While science is relatively new to studying homosexuality, studies tend to indicate that its biological.
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***-news.uchicago.edu/releases/03/differential-brain-activation.pdf
***.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html
Gay, Straight Men’s Brain Responses Differ
***.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155990,00.html
***.livescience.com/health/060224_gay_genes.html
***.springerlink.com/content/w27453600k586276/
There is overwhelming scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice. Sexual orientation is generally a biological trait that is determined pre-natally, although there is no one certain thing that explains all of the cases. “Nurture” may have some effect, but for the most part it is biological.
Using this argument is like saying man-made global warming is a fact because the “experts” say so… There is plenty of professional dissension in both areas. BUT if they disagree…they are “banished.” That’s not scientific consensus– it’s consensus based upon extortion. That’s NOT science and not trustworthy evidence to use in a debate… I’m thinking homosexuals have worked hard and found themselves in places of authority–a gay mafia. That does not make truth…just self-made comfort.
And just for the record…disagreement does not equal hate. To say so just further disqualifies your trustworthiness and makes the rest of your debate suspect to being mere propaganda.
Well you can prove your words right here. Answer the following questions:
Are you male? (If not, reverse the questions to the other gender) If so, Are you sexually attracted to other men? Would you be able to enjoy sex with a man? Do you get sexual urges with a man? Do men turn you on sexually and emotionally?
I’m sure like every other anti-gay, you will either completely disappear, or try to dodge these questions, since they prove you wrong. Which one will it be?
These questions prove what? When I was in college I was so sexually/lustfully driven that I considered homosexual relationships…I was attracted to just about anything that would get me off–anything. I lay in bed staring at the ceiling imagining having sex with (not necessarily making love to) a man…I realized that I would have to flip an internal switch, whether it be spiritual, emotional, whatever it was and that my decision would be irrevocable. I chose against it. I was motivated by pure lust and sensation…so the “attraction” questions don’t quite mean the same thing to me.
“We need to get the word out to religious communities that anti-gay people are twisting God’s words to condone their hate.”
I must respond to this accusation. First, I totally disagree with it. Secondly, it is many gay marriage proponents who twist God’s word to suit their case. Everyone is familiar with the passages that are used to show that homosexuality is a sin. Please show me where in scripture God sanctions the union of a man with a man or a woman with a woman. If you do, then I will change my position.
I have to ask, since when does my disagreement on an issue like homosexuality with someone else equate to hatred?! Please explain!!!
It doesn’t work that way. Christians make the claim that homosexuality is a sin. I proved citing the work of biblical scholars and historians that all passages they pull out of context that homosexuality is not a sin. Nowhere in the bible is same-sex acts of two loving consenting adults ever condemned. Also, as for the hatred, i’ve seen it by many christians. Those who kick their sons and daughters out simply for being gay. That’s hatred. Those that hate them for no reason. That’s hatred. Those that condemn them and call them sinners when they are not. That’s hatred. You’re telling me calling a black guy the n word is not hatred? Or calling black people “inferior” or “sinners” is not hatred? They would also tell you otherwise.
Also, you did want to see homosexual couples in the bible in a positive light. I actually got a few for you as well =)
In fact, the Bible has gay couples in a positive light as noted in Ruth 1:16-17; Daniel 1:9; 1 Samuel 20: 41-42; and 2 Samuel 1:26. David and Jonathan’s relationship parallels that of Gilgamesh and Enkidu, a gay couple in an ancient Sumerian epic. Their relationship fits the model of military lovers, common throughout the societies of the ancient Middle East. These male-male sexual relationships were taken for granted, and they would not have had to be explicitly referenced.
Shadow Man…”gay couples?” That’s pure hopeful conjecture. It seems the gay mind can’t imagine two people of the same sex loving each other intensely without physical contact. It works…reallly!
Please thing before you speak:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/beds/bucks/herts/5236132.stm
Apparently you guys aren’t as disgusted about sex as you are the very idea of two men in love, even if they are 100% celibate.
In fact, the Bible has gay couples in a positive light as noted in Ruth 1:16-17; Daniel 1:9; 1 Samuel 20: 41-42; and 2 Samuel 1:26. David and Jonathan’s relationship parallels that of Gilgamesh and Enkidu, a gay couple in an ancient Sumerian epic. Their relationship fits the model of military lovers, common throughout the societies of the ancient Middle East. These male-male sexual relationships were taken for granted, and they would not have had to be explicitly referenced.
1 Samuel 20
41) And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded.
42) And Jonathan said to David, Go in peace, forasmuch as we have sworn both of us in the name of the LORD, saying, The LORD be between me and thee, and between my seed and thy seed for ever. And he arose and departed: and Jonathan went into the city.
The kissed each other until David “exceeded.” The Hebrew word translated “exceeded” means to grow. Do you think David got taller?
The Hebrew word is “higdil,” which is the causative conjugation of the root gadal, meaning that David was caused to become big, in other words, he got a hard on from his passion for Jonathan.
And, in the very next verse, they swear on their seed.
Notice how you could not refute any point that i made =)
Shadow_man,
You have gone to a place that no one has gone before by interpreting this scripture this way. I have looked at many versions of this verse and none of them come even close to interpreting this verse in the way you have. I’ve looked at Strong’s concordance and there is no hint of this meaning that you give it. You’re right, I haven’t refuted any point you’ve made and I won’t try. Some things are a waste of time and this is one of them. If you’re going to go this far in twisting the scripture to try to back up a belief you want to justify then you need more help than I can give!
“Please show me where in scripture God sanctions the union of a man with a man or a woman with a woman. If you do, then I will change my position.”
In Genesis 1 & 2, Adam and Eve are punished for this disobedience. Adam chooses to follow Eve over God. There is a symbolic element involved in the removal of innocence and this is expressed in their awareness of their nakedness, which causes them to feel shame. Prior to this removal of innocence, the couple did not procreate or have the pains of living. They were care-free like children.
By contract, we have the passages where David and Jonathan’s close relationship is looked upon favorably by the biblical authors. David even goes so far as to undress himself and kiss Jonathan, something that would be unfathomable even during his time.
Greling,
I was reading your previous two posts and I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. I looked up the passage you’re referring to and the only thing it speaks of is David kissing Jonathan when David had to leave because King Saul was trying to kill him. There is no mention of David removing any clothing. Is there some other passage I’m not familiar with?
To make another point, it is the common practice of men in other cultures (especially ancient Middle East cultures) to kiss one another. This, in no way, implies homosexuality. Muslim men often kiss one another and, depending on where you are, one could die for engaging in homosexual practices.
Ooops. It was Jonathan who disrobed before David. Sorry about that.: 1 Samuel 18:4
Furthermore, explain the remark that his love for him was “surpassing that of women”.2 Samuel 1:26
First of all, you haven’t proved anything. Trying to say that the only thing scripture condemns are the sexual practices associated with idolatry doesn’t wash. Leviticus 18:22 says: Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. This command is given among a list of improper relationships that God forbid the Israelites to participate in. Among them are relations with your sister, your aunt, you daughter-in-law, etc. Are you going to say that these practices should be okay if they are not associated with idolatry? Of course not!
Secondly, citing those passages in Ruth, Daniel, and I and II Samuel are some of the biggest twisting of scripture I have ever seen. Those passages deal with loving relationships between two people that have nothing to do with sex. Ruth and Naomi?! Seriously?!!! David and Jonathan were very close friends. So close that they would probably choose each other over their wives if they had to make a choice. You have people today who would choose their friends over their spouses. It doesn’t mean they are sleeping with them! One thing that is ignored is the fact that the nature of marriages was different then than they are now. Back then they could have more than one wife which means you may not have been very close to them. Also, wives were treated as property then by many people.
Thirdly, listing what may be the bad behavior of some Christians doesn’t make someone who believes that scripture speaks definitively against homosexuality a hater.
Ultimately, this debate comes down to what you believe scripture states concerning homosexuality. One side is wrong and the other is right. Someday we will all find out!
“Leviticus 18:22 says: Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. This command is given among a list of improper relationships that God forbid the Israelites to participate in. Among them are relations with your sister, your aunt, you daughter-in-law, etc. Are you going to say that these practices should be okay if they are not associated with idolatry? Of course not!”
But it uses a different word for the relationship between men. It uses the Hebrew word “to’ebah” (poorly translated as “abomination”, more properly understood as “ritually unclean”), which is the same condemnatory word it uses for pork and shellfish in 11:11-12). The word used to describe the other relationships is “zimah”, which is a more clear, stronger word for “sexual sin”. Why even choose a different word?
And proximity is not a valid argument in hermeneutics. If that were the case, conversations where Jesus is talking back and forth with the Devil would put the Devil’s words on the same level.
As I’ve written here, if you’re a Christian this should bother you. Having compassion for gay teens does not mean you condone sin. It means you’re human and that you understand that Christ has called us to love.
Jamey Rodemeyer’s suicide is a tragic reminder of the vulnerability of gay teens
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/jamey-rodemeyer-suicide-ny-police-open-criminal-investigation/story?id=14580832
Here is another example of how a fellow Christian, Andrew Marin, is addressing this issue:
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2010/August/Missionarys-Message-to-Gays-Im-Sorry-/?WT.mc_id=EmbedNewsPlayer